Traitors!!!

*stops laughing*

Max, thanks for that, you have given my family and I the laugh of the week. No offence, but I have a nasty feeling the Sex Pistols in one LP have more of value than anything the Dixie Chicks have to their name. Huge in their time? They still have a HUGE number of fans, their music can still be bought in most music shops, it is still on the radio from time to time. They were popular in Britain and I think made it to Europe and the US (though I admit they may not have made it too well in the US). However, I see what you are getting at as reguards the 'different message' issue. The Sex Pistols were a 'punk' group, it was rather expected from them where as I suppose comments like this from the Dixie Chicks may have more impact. Contrary to popular belief, many British radio stations are not state owned and really you your comment about not playing music because the audience dont like it appears rather pointless, I can not see how it is relivant. Presumably they don't play classical music or hard core rock for the same reason, also common sense but hardly related to the issue.

Ok, what were we discussing again?

 

Andy, the only reason the Chicks aren't in bankruptcy is because of all the money they have made before 2003. If it hadn't been for that, they would be flat out broke from lack of sales.

 

Jimi Hendrix

On October 31,1961, Jimi joined the 101st Airborne Division and starts
parachute training. During his 26th jump, Jimi broke his ankle and had to leave the army.

A member of the 101st Airborne stationed at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. While in retrospect, the notion of Hendrix as a soldier seems comical, his stint as a paratrooper was crucial to his artistic development.

In later years Hendrix would speak animatedly about the adrenaline rush of jumping out of an airplane and free-falling through the sky. The combined terror and exhilaration, the enormous whooshing sound followed by the strange, placid calm of floating down, were experiences he wanted to recreate in musical terms. That he succeeded in doing so long before adapting "The Star Spangled Banner" is clear; yet by fusing this sonic rendering with his version of the national anthem, he found a sound large enough to accommodate the range of his vision, and, in doing so, created one of the musical wonders of the age.

Contextually, it would be hard to imagine a more unified coalescing of ideas.

*** AIRBORNE ***

 

Mainstream America was disgruntled by Hendrix's rendition of the Star Spangled Banner.

 

Stefan- isn't Jim Morrison's grave at Pierre le Chase (I know the spelling is %$&%$%&'d up!)cemetary about up? I heard somewhere that it has to be moved because of the French time matter contract something or another.......

AKA.-------- James Douglas Morrison.

 

Sure is, along with several people I hve never heared of but who apparently are very famous. It is well worth a visit.

 

Yesterday I saw a documentary on another miserable traitor, Marlene Dietrich.

It's somehow that you can be a great artist even though you're a traitor and when she finally died in 1992 both she and the Germans found finally peace with each other: She was buried in Berlin, the Berliners throw flowers on her coffin.

So even if you are a traitor and hate your nation, the people and the leadership, you can still be a big ambassdor of a differnt kind of Germanism.

Cheers,

[ 05. June 2003, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: AndyW ]

 

What did she do/say to be labled as a traitor? Hollywood personalities were never an interest of mine so excuse my ignorance. Wasn't she kept out of the ETO (Britian) USO shows for fear of capture by German agents?

 

I think what Andy is getting at is that Marlene Dietrich was a German, during the war she did not return home to 'do her bit' instead aiding the allied war effort. This does indeed make her a 'traitor' to her people, however from our point of view what she did was 'right'. What he is trying to say (I think) is that whether someone is a traitor or not depends on your point of view, to be honest from my point of view these 'Dixie Chicks' are not traitors any more than Dietrich was.

 

A little something on Marlene Dietrich:

http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/weekly/aa030699.htm

Marlene Dietrich (1901-1992) was one of the most remarkable actresses of the 20th-century.

- She did not go in for national politics but was fiercely anti-fascist and pro-American.
- She looked like a heavenly prima donna but during WW2 she worked on the front in Northern Africa and Europe entertaining American troops and helping in hospitals for which the U.S., the French and the Israeli governments awarded her medals.
- She had a career after 40 but became a legend long before her death.
- She was born in Germany, but lived her life as an American citizen.


Marie Magdalene Dietrich was born on December 27, 1901 in Schoeneberg, Berlin, to a family of Louis Erich Otto and Josephine Dietrich. The unique name 'Marlene' she created in her childhood by cutting off the middle of her name, and used it later together with her surname as a pseudonym known to the whole world.
Dietrich's world movie career began with The Blue Angel, 1929, one of the most timeless films in the history of motion picture and still admired. In 1930 she moved to the U.S., in Hollywood. All the films done there together with the Austrian director Josef von Sternberg made Marlene the brilliant queen of the screen.

On May 6, 1992 Dietrich died in Paris, but the legend remains immortal.

 

Marlene Dietrich was German born and an American Citizen.She was NOT a traitor.

Ms. Dietrich never 'took up arms' against Germany or any other country.She supported the country and the way of life that SHE believed in and that's good enough.

 

Maybe so, but what I think Andy was trying to get at is that she was German, at a time when the 'fatherland' called its sons and daughters home to fight she did not, i.e. she was a 'traitor' to her country of birth, just as Lord Haw Haw was a traitor to Britain. We do not see her as a traitor because she supported the Allies (she did entertain the troops and so on, in fact there is a pic of her with some US troops in france IIRC), in much the same way that those who are anti-Bush or anti war would argue that the Dixie Chicks are not traitors. Actually technically that bloke in 'the Patriot' played by Gibson was a traitor to his King and his country. It is all rather pointless to discuss this as it depends on your point of view, hell, some people might even say that President Blair is a traitor... oh, hang on a minute...

 

Ere Stefan, dont want to interupt, but maybe my facts are wrong here too...Wasnt Haw Haw American?
Irish?

Born Ireland lived America with passport or the other way around...Only lived here for a short time following Mosely around for a bit..

Could be wrong but Im too lazy to do any homework tonight...Im sure he wasnt British mate.

 

Sorry couldnt resist looking....

For many in Britain in World War Two, William Joyce, "Lord Haw-Haw", became a figure of hate.

"Germany calling, Germany calling" was the call sign of a Hamburg radio station which broadcast nightly news bulletins in English to the British people. The voice of the speaker belonged to William Joyce - nick-named Lord Haw-Haw by the "Daily Express". In fact, possibly as many as three men were Lord Haw-Haw with Joyce being the most infamous. Another radio commentator was a former army officer called Norman Baillie-Stewart. However, Joyce is the name most frequently associated with the "Germany calling" nightly bulletins.

Joyce was Irish by blood, American by birth and carried a British passport. He had belonged the Oswald Mosely's British Fascist Party - a political party in Britain that attempted to copy the Nazi Party in Germany

 

I knew where Andy was coming from and I can see his point of view.

Birthright is much stronger in Europe than in the USA. Since we Americans are in a melting pot of cultures and races; it's one's Citizenship that dominates here.IMHO...

Marlene stood up for the Flag of her Country by virtue of being a Citizen under that same Flag.

 

What was Haw Haw's fate?

 

We did him in...

Found this interesting site Greenjacket, explores the guy in a rather different way to the norm I would say..

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/radio/lord-haw-haw/

Think its American.

 

This discussion is just silly. Not to be rude or anything but technically, as Stefan pointed out, the United States was founded by traitors. Blind patriotism is not only silly but also dangerous. We must follow our moral convictions instead of flags.

To quote some fine Americans:

"Since when is skepticism un-American?
Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same."

Best regards/ Daniel

 

Havent most of the worlds civil wars been fought against traitors? Some of em even won.

Those Texans in the Alamo are surely just Mexican traitors.

Cromwell, well, what a traitor he was....

The guys who tried to kill Hitler.....Hang em as traitors I say...Execute em all...

De Gaulle..traitor to France in 1940.

Nope your right Daniel ....its gettin silly.

 

Marlene Dietrich (Maria Magdalena von Losch) became U.S. citizen in 1939.

Joining another citizenship does not mean that one stops to be German.

She did what she thought is right, and by doing this she decided to fight her country.

She is as much a traitor to Germany as (hypothetically) Britney Spears would be a traitor to the U.S.A., if she would have joined Iraqi citizenship in 2001, wearing an Iraq uniform, singing and dancing for Iraq soldiers to support them defending their homeland against U.S. troops.

My point is that disagreement or even nonconformity of a certain individual to the rules set up by a social, ethnic, cultural, national or any other informal group is "treason" to the rest of the group.

I took Marlene as an example to show that the idea of "treason" works in any direction.

She was a great artist, she was a German with an U.S. passport, and by not staying neutral she become a traitor, if you think there is such a thing.

Cheers,