Germans invited to D-day 60th.

I think that reconciliation is very important. It's been 60 years already and people need to bury some things from the heart - of course not from memory.

It's hard but it's necessary. What about Japanese veterans being invited to Pearl Harbour on its LX anniversary? There were many American veterans who left grief aside and made new good friends. Some others were not as opened and they missed the chance to forgive and reconciliate with their past. They're free to do that but I don't think that's the right way.

On June 6th 2004 the world is going to remember the LX anniversary of one of its most epic and important moments in which many brave men from many nations lost their lives. Politics and barbarism is dead now. What remains is the memory of the fallen, a historical lesson and old men full of tales who must be assured to live as happily as possible for the rest of their few days.

 

I would think the Germans would have little interest in attending such a 'ceremony'.

It holds no interest. The continued celebration is an affront to the German soldiers who gave their lives on behalf of their country and their loved ones.

Normandy was an offensive operation not defensive. You take your chance.

It is also informative to consider that German women and children were being murdered by saturation bombing on German cities and deliberately targeted.

In my consideration, the German leader should refuse the invitation.

 

"The continued celebration is an affront to the German soldiers who gave their lives on behalf of their country and their loved ones."

Thank you for your opinion - here's mine NAFF OFF

No.9

 

NoName

Who started that bloody war and who started bombing cities?? War is hell and not all is that pleasant. It is still a hard topic about the allies also starting to bomb cities but don't you start blaming the allies for something the Germans themselves started.

pop

 

The fact that you haven't even bothered with a name mate means you read this post on the off chance and probably registered just to post an ill-considered reply to take a swipe at us.

This ceremony is not about forcing an apology, that has been done and generations have also paid the price, this ceremony is about remembering the ones who died on D-Day, and in the 21st century it should be about the Germans as well as the Allies.

Also, I don't go for this who started the war stuff, its what we do today that's important, and there can only be 2 sides to peace/reconcilliation, not just the one.

 

I support both your respective posts, Brat and Popski!

 

My comment was intended to get the historical picture wright.The comment NoName did is a only half the truth. After a while it is time to let this go by but not to forget. The invitation of the German president is a good sign to let us not forget but get on and get along. It is all purely symbolical but important to be done for the future.

Pop

 

It is also informative to consider that German women and children were being murdered by saturation bombing on German cities and deliberately targeted.

Christ!!!!! Not this again?!Tell you what...why don't we rewrite the history books once a decade and let the belligerents take turn-about at winning the war?

[ 06. January 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]

 

I realise that Pop. No offense intended. My comment wasn't personal or aimed at you, I was just trying desperately (vainly it now seems ) not to get this thread down the well trod "Who did what to whom" territory. Ah...well

 

Well the thread seems to be inviting quite a few interesting comments (we can forget Mr Nonames effort )

I respect greatly 'Sappers' views, he was there he has the injuries and memories of what war was like first hand. I would imagine from his comments that he would find it very difficult, if not impossible to invite German heads of state to an Allied ceremony.

I wonder though Brian if you have the same thoughts for the ordinary German soldier who like you was taking his orders from above?
I do not intend any insult as I do not know you at all, but I would imagine that you would accept that soldiers on both sides did some pretty terrible things. ( I remain on the ordinary soldier front here, not death camps or political madness)

I can only form my opinions on programmes I have seen where veterans from both sides have met and voiced their own versions of the same event (Falklands, Gulf and WW2 etc)On such programmes there would seem to be a mutual respect for each other as front line troops.

Brian I have never been in the forces, I have never been under fire and I have never seen horrors such as you have. If I am talking out of my a*s* please feel free to tell me so.

Kindest Regards Graham

 

No offence taken Bratwurst

But your comment only made me explain my comment clearer. Maybe my English is not clear enough sometimes for another reader, me just being a Dutchie. Also am a little allergic to people bending history to their own favour.

Pop

 

Thank You for your considered responses.

I would hate to think some of you are defending the deliberate murder of German women and children. But as the laughing-boys, in their planes, so happily thought of it - 'we did not think, we just pushed the buttons'.

So be it. They were told to do so. But end the double standards and consider this: incendiary bombs were dropped from a great height on German cities. The sole reason was to kill and burn as many civilians as possible. A war aim - or a war crime? And millions were killed: in Hamburg, Munich, Berlin, Dresden and other German towns.

It was a deliberate policy. Less righteous congratulation and more thought is required.

Thanks, and my regard.

[ 07. January 2004, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: NoName ]

 

Of course, if anyone here wishes to debate the issue, or question me on my knowledge - feel free. But be precise.

Thank You.

 

Noname

The bombing of German cities is in my opinion not the best option for fighting war. But the Allies just did it better than the Germans did through better and more planes. But in your comment I only see the Allies as the bad men, when there are enough cities to mention where the German murdered innocent people by targeting civilian population. There are two sides to the story and you bend the story only to blame the Allies. If history is told the wrong way or just one way the future people will read it the wrong way and the lesson is never learned. That my objection to your story.

Popski

 

Talking of 'being precise' - where is the figure of ' millions killed....in German towns' coming from ? I'd be most interested to refer to this source.

I seem to recall the figure of 6 million being quoted somewhere for other innocent deaths being perpetrated by the noble Nazi regime which, like it or not, those 'laughing bomber boys' were dedicated to destroying with whatever means were available at the time.

World War II was not a Gentleman's sparring match.

 

People. I think we are missing the point here.

This is a D-Day Celebration, June 6 1944, no civilians involved. Let's not get drawn into debates about war atrocities in THIS thread, there are plenty of places in this forum to do so!!

Noname, the "blame game" has nothing to do with veterans on both sides trying to reconcile a violent era in their lives where comrades were killed and they had to become violent killers for the first time (for many) in their lives ... Please start another thread if you want to go down this path.

 

Well said, BratWust !

Perhaps newer members, should they wish to perpetuate a more controversial debate, would care to contribute where this has been discussed before ; -

http://www.ww2forums.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000032#000000

 

Most excellent post, Jeff!!!

Well said you too, Martin! Here are the two perfect threads for this always interesting discussion. I'll make comments to your posts there, NoName.

Greatest Allied atrocity of WWII?

Bombing of Dresden

 

May I add another little bit here? This 60th anniversary is to remember when we paid a very high price, to those that were killed, and those like myself, that were wounded, We look back on the invasion of France in 44, as a time when we removed, at great cost, the evil and repressive Nazi regime from Europe, Why? for "GODS" sake should we old Veterans welcome, those that fought to maintain that repressive regime?
and still continued with their atrocities?
The sight of one of them would sicken me.
Sapper.

 

Brian, let me see if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that any German soldier whether W-SS, Heer, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe should not be allowed to any Normandie ceremony and would be looked down upon and unwelcomed ? If so I find this quite tragic. I understand only through your well taken stories as I was not there but to deny others the right to remember their fallen friends seems a little harsh. Again maybe I am taking your statements out of context ?
You must remember that during June of 44 onward many of the young Landsers no longer believed in der Führers orders and were not there of their own choosing.........

v/r

~Erich