Another Fight For Vietnam Vets

Howdy All,

Well friends it looks as if John Kerry (Democrat Presidential hopeful) is about to have that 50 Gallon drum of whoop arse dumped on him.
For 33 years we Viet Vets have had to live with slander, slander that was laid on us by Hanoi John Kerry and Hanoi Jane Fonda back in 1971.

Kerry is the instigator of the "Baby Killer" myth, which among other false and distructive myths have cost the lives of more Viet Vets after the war ended than died in actual combat.

I hope you take the time to visit the site I've provided 'Vietnam Special Forces Against John Kerry'

http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/

Along with 'Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry' the 33 year wait for the slander to be removed is well underway.

KRs,
Will

 

Hold on-thought Kerry was a vet himself?

Regards,
Gordon

 

Just a few facts on Kerry's Vietnam service:

He was in country a total of just over 4 months (he got sent home because he decided to run for the Senate....that allows you a discharge and return home under US military rules).

His "Winter Soldier" testimony has almost totally been proven false. Many of the soldiers he had testifying in this (150 were cited) farce weren't even in combat in Vietnam and in some cases not even in the country! How credible are combat claims from people not in combat or in some cases even in Vietnam?!
Some specifics: Kerry claimed Blacks were disportionally in combat and killed to their numbers in the US population. Records show this patently to be false.
His claims of general raping, pillaging, dropping prisoners from helicopers, etc. have never been substanciated. If this was widespread why have no cases or, given the amount of coverage by the press at the time, come forward beyond isolated, prosecuted incidents like Mi Lai?

None of his purple hearts were for really serious wounds (he got 3, three!, in 4 months....). Along with his silver star there is some question about the circumstances under which they were awarded. I will leave that to those more diligent at looking up web sites to post more details...
A few though...Kerry's patrol boat came under RPG fire from a single firer. His crew returned fire and Kerry claimed at the time to have personally killed the firer. That is about the extent of his silver star action.....

Basically, Kerry is a fraud. He was and is a political opportunist whose anti-military stance is so virilant that on that basis alone any self respecting veteran would oppose his election.

I recommend the book "Stolen Valor" by Whitley and Burkett on this subject for more too.

 

TA,
Wasn't one of the reasons for the rise of the Black Power movement the fact that Black and Hispanic people were more likely to be conscripted than White people, particularly less so than those with the option of going to college or uni?

Regards,
Gordon

 

Hi Will, actually the one who coined the term 'baby killers' was none other than CBS's illustrious news anchor, dan rather. When he coined that term, he was stationed with a US Army unit who held some position the VC were wanting to attack but did not have enough local "volunteers" to help so, they kidnapped the parents of a 5 yr old boy, told him he was going to have to run to the Americans w/ TNT strapped to him, or they would kill his parents.

They probably had killed his parents long before this little boy, did his final deed.

Anyway, the little boy ran towards the American positions and the G.I.'s saw that he had TNT strapped to him and though hated to shoot the kid, did so in order to keep many of them from being killed in the blast with the kid.

dan blather, saw this and saw the G.I.'s shoot the kid--saw the TNT strapped to the kids tummy and back, but still called the G.I.'s 'baby killers." This dork is nothing but a sack of (censored by self)

Now, onto the kerry thing. I don't like him, have no respect for him and, anyone who worked with a known traitor--like hanoi jane--is not all there in the brain dept.

kerry will be even worse in some respects, than slick willy clinton--if it makes it into office.

All I know is, that kerry does not have my vote, and I don't really want to vote for Bush this time around but, we have no real choices so--I will vote for the lessor of two evils.

 

Howdy All,

Historian,

TA has made a great suggestion, if you really want to know about Da Nam & kerry read "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett.

TA,

Spot on TA,kerry relied upon phonies and wannabes for support. His prominence has allowed current phonies and wannabes to continue the unsubstantiated allegations made all those years ago and which Kerry appears to condone even today. For example:


Elton Mazione, claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, Kerry's original organization, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam.


Kerry's VVAW leader friend from 1971, Al Hubbard, lied about being an officer, Vietnam Veteran, and sustaining war injuries. Michael Harbert, another VVAW crony of Kerry, lied about his Vietnam service.


Frank Dux: He charged many recognizable Vietnam vets with using techniques bordering on war crimes. Dux was a fraud and non Vietnam Veteran.


Yoshia K. Chee claimed we in Vietnam routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.


Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.


The Senator's own VVAW and similar groups relied upon people like: K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.


Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintained a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, in Phoenix, or had any first hand information. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training.

For these reasons for this immoral and false testimony by kerry, OH my Brothers and I were labeled "Baby Killers" when we got home, I got harrassed so hard at LAX that I had to be escorted from LAX by the airport Police after I decked a couple of kerrys phony vet boys.

We have spent the last 33 years in a perpetual state of slander, I have personally watched three of my Viet Vet Brothers waste away and die because they could not bear the burden of being called "Baby Killers".

SI YO Evans ,

Yes you are correct as far as the publics exposure to rathers "Baby Killer" nonsense, but to us Viet Vets kerry is the one who instigated this myth during his Senate lieing session.
All us Viet Vets that know kerry for what he truely is (a political prostitute) and a liar but what were hoping is that the Populace of the US is as aware and as well educated as you are my friend .

I registered as a Democrat as soon as I became old enough after returning to the world in 1970, I do not however let partisianship or bias influence my judgement, Dubya is our best bet at this point especially if you consider kerry voted against the A1 Abrams, Striker, Tomahawk etc. etc. battle systems, Oh Yeah he also wants to put the US Military directly under the auspices of the UN.......GEEZ !!!!!

Thank You All Very Much,
Will

 

Wah Duh Will.

I was not aware of how much damage kerry did so early on and I do thank you for posting that here. Im going to copy this and send to a friend of mine who also is a Nam Vet--who said he was going to vote for kerry because of Bush's border policies.

Best regards to you Will--I O U my grattitude as well. Carl.

 

I've been quite into reading and watching things on Vietnam lately and all I have to say is that even if I agree that that horrible war should have never happened I am also very, very pissed up by what demonstrators made in the streets of Washington, particularly stupid slogans like: "Hey, LBJ! How many kids you killed today?!"

The Vietnam war was much more brutal than most of what the US had ever fought —except for the PTO in WWII— and even if there were many atrocities —very common in war, and even more common in civil wars, and even more between two currupted régimes— no one had the right of insulting men in uniform —except for the imbeciles of Wheeler and Westmoreland. Attacks against Vietnam veterans are in my opinion, disgraceful. And men that suddenly switched sides are certainly despicable.

I never liked John Kerry and now I like him even less. General Clark was by far a better option than Clark or that moron of Dean, but I think there will be no option except for Kerry and Bush. And I definately would preffer Kerry than Bush again. And not because I like Kerry, but for the democrat ideological basis he'll have to stick to. I just hope that if Kerry wins becomes a Clinton —he is a disgusting person as Clinton is, that's for sure— who restores US' reputation and puts an end to Bush's irresponsible economic measures.

[ 18. February 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: General der Infanterie Friedrich H ]

 

Ox,
Is "Stolen Valour" about the actual Vietnam War, or just John Kerry's part in it?
If it's the latter, I'm not that interested.

Regards,
Gordon

 

Howdy,

SI YO Carl,

Yes Sir, kerry hammered us hard. it's almost unbelievable he's the top Demo challenger for the Presidency.
I really hope your Viet Vet friend will research kerry and the damage he's done to his reputation as a Combat Vet.
I gotta agree with your friend about Dubya's border policy, all in all tho Dubya has done a pretty good job.

Wah Duh Compadre,
Will

Howdy General,

Most of the damage done by kerry was due to his false teatimony about "Winter Soldier" & "Operation Phoenix", it was initally started by the French and evolved into a politically driven operation to curtail the number of VC and NVA atroscities, the Viet Cong were using the civilians as a shields, operating out of villages faced with extermination if the villagers refused, saw some of this myself.

Many Vietnamese witnesses, such as the wife of a Viet Cong soldier, has backed away from her assertion that she actually observed killings, but more importantly we should not forget that Vietnam is a totalitarian state in which alleged American atrocities are a staple of Communist propaganda and that the civilian deaths were a tragic but unintended result of the war. North Vietnamese and Viet Cong frequently committed atrocities, not as a result of thumos run amok, but as a matter of policy.

While left-wing anti-war critics of U.S. policy in Vietnam are quick to invoke Auschwitz and the Nazis in discussing alleged American atrocities, they are silent about such facts as Hue City where the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong systematically murdered 3,000 people. They are also willing to excuse Pol Pot’s mass murder of upwards of a million Cambodians.

Operation Phoenix is at least understandable as a consequence of the psychological stress of combat against a moraless enemy.
Hue and Pol Pot, on the other hand, were instances of a defining phenomenon of the twentieth century: mass murder generated by the attempt of social engineers to remake human nature according to an abstract ideology, whether Communist or National Socialist.

Even today people (and especially kerry) seem to NOT know who we were fighting in Nam, kerry's false testimony made bad guys of we Viet Vets, the entire world sees us under that false pretex while the purveyors of the largest mass-murdering form of Govt. to ever blacken the history of Civilization.......communism..... gets off easy.

A travesty of the worst kind, a travesty sponsored & committed by kerry.

All The Best,
Will

 

Hey there blood-brother.

kerry is a scumbag to the Nth degree. That's what I thought about him when I first heard more of his lies being corrected, I never did like that mealy-mouth @$#%@^ and I dislike him more with every new thing that comes out on it.

I'll tell my friend or rather, I will copy all this stuff here and mail it to him.

BTW, my friend was one of the Helo guys who helped evac Saigon in the end.

Take care Kameraden.

 

Its about a combination of who really fought in Vietnam and the post war myths and truths that have shaped much of what goes for public knowledge (or lack thereof) about that war. It is absolutely surprising in some cases. It was this book and Burkett, for instance, that exposed Shelby Stanton having seriously lied about his military experiance and the fraud he had built up about his credentials as a historian. It is really a good read. Whitley and Burkett keep it interesting and moving right along.
Burkett only mentions Kerry on a couple of pages, mostly in relation to his 'Winter Soldier' investigation. Even that small part is interesting. Like his "witness" Michael Schneider who testified to numerous Vietnam "war crimes." Schneider turns out to have been less than honorably discharged from the US Army for multiple desertions. He never served in Vietnam only in Europe (where he deserted his first time). After discharge he was convicted of murder in Oklahoma and spent time in a criminal insane asylum. He's just one of most of those 150 Kerry claimed as credible witnesses of US atrocities in Vietnam.

 

Ther can't be a doubt:

It's election campaign in the U.S. of A. and again all those are creeping off from under the rock whose job is to muck-rake in dirty laundy and throw with dirt.

A particulary disgusting spectacle to watch from outside.

Cheers,

 

Andy, it's just as disgusting to see it from here as well.

 

Is this the same John Kerry who was awarded a medal at the same time as he was accused of war crimes?

 

Yessir, one and the same.

 

Reading this, it seems somewhat surprising to see Kerry win almost everywhere.

How much are these facts used by his Democrat rivals?

What are people's objections against John Edwards?

 

I will quote Colonel Brandt...
" There is nothing more despicable in my mind, than the man who takes the laurels of a man killed in action " which to me seems to sum up John Kerry...but i'm just taking it from what i hear here...

 

Oh ah, kerry is touted as being an honorabe vet but, who also had his feeble mind twisted by the likes of being involved with hanoi jane fonda.

Anything that either side can use against each other will be used--its not just the Republicans saying anything, in fact, the Democrats have spent most of over three years doing nothing but Bush bashing. Bush's people are finally starting to get a bit of revenge.

 

Isn't politics nice?