Another Fight For Vietnam Vets

Come on Erich,we all know Mr Gore is running in 2008. Or is that Vice-pres.?

 

E ♠

[ 22. March 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Erich ]

 

I remember sending a reception report to Voice of America years ago, and they sent me back a book called An Outline of American Government.
Well, thanks to that book I promptly lost all interest in American politics, and took up something I could understand-nuclear physics.

Regards,
Gordon

 

Hi Fried, yup--kerry is the biggest a-hole in politics currently--cept for billery clinton.

Erich, when you decide to move to Deutschland, take me with you. I might even more to Czecholslovakia or Poland, where the cost of living aint so high.

Oh and Framert, kerry is for gun control. The slimy bastich voted to extend the control on "assault" weapons for another decade. For that alone (not including my other reasons) for that alone--that jerko does not get me vote.

 

Yeah Carl,I read about that.How about that story "Bush and Kerry related"?16th cousins,3 times removed???? "Strange car/plane accident" Erich? That's the Kennedy's is'nt it??

 

[ 22. March 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Erich ]

 

OK, I'll bite. True story???Never heard of it.

 

[ 22. March 2004, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Erich ]

 

Hi Framert, that would NOW surprise me at all. After all, slick willy and it's family are from Arkansas.

 

Howdy All,

I've just finished reading the conversations that have taken place since my last visit (been down with that chicken/swine/spotted owl or whatever it's called flu .

A question being ask here in the USA is just how down and dirty the Presidential Race will be, I think the example set but the DNC (Democratic Nat.l Comm.) in hiring Al (the dork) Frankin as a spokesman and useing Michael (fat boy) Moore as well already shows how far down in the gutter the Democrats are willing to go.

The DNC's personal attack's on Dubya express this very well, as one of you has already so appropriately said when the Demo's use slander it's cool, catch a Repub useing realistic questioning and all you get is " what a terrible way to run an election campaign".

kerry's boys wanted Dubya to show his Military Records to the Public and he did, WHAT ABOUT KERRY !!!!
He still refuses to open his Military Records to the Public.
I hope I see this "realistic questioning" stressed more by Dubya's people despite all the "How Dare You" claims that are bound to come from the Demo's.
kerry's people know two bandades and three stitches when exposed to a general public chocked full of WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Bosnia, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom and enduring Freedom Veterans kerry's counterfit a$$ will be exposed for what it is...a parasite riding on the back of all those who fought and died for Life, Liberty and the Pursuit Of Happiness.

Present day Republicans here in the USA are more a kin to our Founding Fathers Moderate Liberals, the Democrats have vanished to be replaced by Socialist, no doubt about it.

The Presidential election is not a Republican/Democratic election anymore, it's a Republican/Communist Traditional/Secular issue.

And were all aware of the results of communist and secular doctrine...failure & chaos.

Well Spoken interaction Gentlemen,
Wah Duh,
Will

 

Again I'm impressed about how ill-informed the American people is... Do all them get their political ideas from McCarthy's times cheap propaganda instead of reading serious philosophy and history books in libraries?

What is communism?

Communism in its original meaning is a social theory and political movement for the direct and communal control of society towards the common benefits of all members, the society being the communist society. The dominant tendency within the communist movement is inspired by Karl Marx's theory. Within Marxist communism the largest trends are inspired by the writings and actions of Lenin.

During the XX century, communism, or communism theory is often used to describe philosophies and practices of Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, Trotskyism and Maoism. The common denominator being Marxism, some of them are in conflict. The most influential branches of the communism tree are: the teachings of Marx/Engels/Lenin/Stalin, Marxism->Trotskyism and Marxism->Leninism->Maoism.

Some other, lesser known flavors are Council Communism, De Leonism and Left Communism.

Communism, or communist society is the name of the social formation, which, according to Marxism is a classless society in which all property is owned by the community as a whole and where all people enjoy equal social and economic status.

Marxists believe that just as society has transformed from feudalism to capitalism, it will transform into socialism and eventually communism. However the method by which this transformation occurs distinguishes communists from other socialists, in that communists believe that this will be accomplished by revolutionary means.

According to Lenin's approach the first step of the long term process of developing a communist society is a revolutionary seizure of political power; in Marxist terms, the domination of the bourgeoisie is to be replaced by the domination of the working class. In Marxist literature this political stage is called the dictatorship of the proletariat. Lenin argued that the revolution would occur first in less developed nations, such as Russia, and would require a vanguard of the proletariat composed of a relatively small tightly organized communist party.

Other communist movements, primarily Libertarian Socialism, differ with Leninism over the issue of the nature or importance of the party, and support for the idea of a government separate to working people's councils.

That, my American friends has nothing to do with liberalism —in its true definition, not its biased and idiotic American nowadays way— and social democracy and therefore has nothing to do with modern parties anywhere in Europe, Asia, America and the very United States except for: People's Republic of China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, and Cuba.

 

Actually, Freidrich, while McCarthy was overwrought in his methods his hearings did expose people who were Soviet sympathisers and actual agents. It is unfair to use that example (based on good historical accounts) as a smear of anti-communist beliefs and actions. There are other examples that would do far better.
You are correct however that the Democrats and liberalism as practiced in Europe and America (the continent, not the country) today come closer to socialist democracy. But, this can also be viewed as a matter of degree. Where tax rates are confiscatory as in Sweden (even where goverment officials are elected) or where government ownership and regulation of business are onerous socialist systems approach the communist idea of state ownership of all means of production / wealth bluring the line between the two. It is just some people cannot or do not wish to differentiate where the line is with any degree of accuracy.
Personally, I prefer Jeffersonian liberalism where the watch word / phrase might be: "No goverment is good government" making it the diametrically opposed view of socialism / communism.

 

I agree about what you said of McCarthy. But I used that example precisely because it is an extreme of paranoia that is used to pass over civil rights and get rid of those who don't agree with you. Maybe McCarthy caught two or three Soviet agents and some four or five Soviet sympathisers. But all the socialists and marxists are protected by the US constitution. The same civil rights that many times in American history have been ignored or used for selfish purposes...

 

Howdy General,

You said,

"Again I'm impressed about how ill-informed the American people is... Do all them get their political ideas from McCarthy's times cheap propaganda instead of reading serious philosophy and history books in libraries?"

It amazes me how little some europeans really know about McCarthy outside of the common rhetoric and how they fail to follow up while we Americans are to busy to visit libraries because were always fighting the ISM's of this world, such as communism.

The Venona Project files have now made things a little uncomfortable for the radical academics who built their professional careers on agonizing over the dark ghost of McCarthyism.
I would suggest you research the Venona files.

Heres a article I had it my drafts;

McCarthyism – No Longer a Dirty Word
by Jamie Glazov

McCarthyism might no longer be a dirty word.

It’s a word that has been used in the pejorative sense ever since U.S. Senator Joe McCarthy waged his "witch-hunt" on suspected Communist sympathizers and spies in the 1950s. It took on a negative connotation because McCarthy was seen as a red-baiter who engaged in fear-mongering and making baseless accusations.

It turns out, however, that McCarthy did not engage in any "witch-hunt" at all. The evidence now demonstrates that the communist threat was actually far greater than even McCarthy himself anticipated. Moreover, recent disclosures reveal that most of McCarthy’s accusations were far from "baseless" – they were dead-on.

McCarthy has been rehabilitated.

I now wonder what my former left-wing colleagues in academia have to say. I’ll never forget how they reveled in demonizing McCarthyism. They always referred to it as if it was this great dark force – and as if they had been its primary victims. Their outrage over their supposed victimization always implied that McCarthyism was somehow just lurking around the corner. Everyone was supposed to fill up with total dread. Thank goodness, therefore, that the world had the left-wing academics to fight the oppressive right-wing oligarchy. Without them, McCarthyism would surely return.

I always couldn’t help wondering whether my left-wing colleagues were suffering from a serious form of brain damage – or whether they were schizoid or delusional. The discrepancy between the energy they put into denouncing, and fearing, McCarthyism and what McCarthyism actually entailed, was pretty profound. In the context of the communist witch-hunts that liquidated millions of people in the 20th century, what was McCarthyism? But my colleagues never stopped prostituting their favourite line: "Yes, there was Stalin, but hey, we had McCarthy." Right.

If McCarthy had never existed, my Marxist colleagues would have had to invent him.

The Venona transcripts are thousands of Soviet intelligence messages that were intercepted and decoded over four decades by the FBI and the NSA (National Security Agency). Released over the past few years, these files prove that there was a large-scale Communist penetration of the U.S. government, and that Communist spies passed on valuable information to the KGB.

The deciphered Venona cables confirm that the American Communist Party successfully established secret caucuses in government agencies throughout the 1930’s and 1940’s. They prove that 349 Americans had covert ties to Soviet intelligence – much as McCarthy had charged. They also indicate that Alger Hiss, who was accused in 1949 of spying for the Soviets, did leak material – even though he denied his guilt. On top of this, the number 349 is clearly a low estimate, because out of 25,000 intercepted telegrams, only 2,900 were decoded.

Many of the spies detected in Venona were investigated for espionage in the early 1950s, and were brought before the House Un-American Activities Committee. Although the U.S. government had accumulated enough evidence through Venona to charge these spies, many of them were never prosecuted, because the government could not expose its success in cracking the Soviet codes. The names of the spies therefore remained a secret until now. Thus, while McCarthy’s critics attacked him for his "baseless" accusations, we now know that the U.S. Senator was right in making most of them - but he was hung out to dry.

McCarthy, therefore, had every legitimate reason to ask the famous question: "Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?" That’s because the American Communist Party was doing severe damage to U.S. security interests, and it was financed and run entirely by Moscow – something that McCarthy’s critics denied for decades.


"Maybe McCarthy caught two or three Soviet agents and some four or five Soviet sympathisers."

Indeed,


And,

"That, my American friends has nothing to do with liberalism —in its true definition, not its biased and idiotic American nowadays way— and social democracy and therefore has nothing to do with modern parties anywhere in Europe, Asia, America and the very United States except for: People's Republic of China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, and Cuba."

Well General, we here in the USA could really give a damn about the "true definition" of liberalism when in the USA "liberalism" has in the past been funded by communism (you know that defining phenomenon of the twentieth century: mass murder generated by the attempt of social engineers to remake human nature according to an abstract ideology, whether Communist or National Socialist.) and still can be found in it's present liberal oreintation in the ruins it created in places like Berkely Ca.

Hence my statement;

The Presidential election is not a Republican/Democratic election anymore, it's a Republican/Communist Traditional/Secular issue.

KRs,
Will

 

Quite welcome. Also, now that kerry has also voted for extending the assault weapon ban for another 10 years, that alone--minus my other reasons, that alone cost that dork my vote.

 

Absolutely right on both counts!
In Britain, the left still foam at the mouth over Maggie Thatcher. Being a Tory myself, I revel in making them

Regards,
Gordon

 

McCarthism shows only one thing:
republican paranoia.

At the end of the 1940s the republicnas were in crisis and severely paranoid. They were defeated by Truman in 1948. Being defeated by Roosevelt? Well, they were used to it. But Truman?! It was too much...

We must add to this the communists taking power in China, the loss of atomic monopoly in 1949 and the Korean War.

For stupid politicians —i.e. republicans and some southern right-wing democrats— it was an easy way out to blame 'traitors' for all that. In their little-fantasy world they couldn't think that the Soviets and communist countries could have been as developed and as intelligent as the Western democracies. The "communist Untermensch" were not able to become powerful and advanced on their own, communist traitors inside the USA are to be blamed...

Even if there were some communist cells in Washington D. C. and the communists indeed had controll over a few fronts, the liaison between them and the State Department was never proved, except for the Hiss scandal —in a minor way, of course. Since many of the charges were never proved.

The only real communist-conspiracy thing was Fuchs and the A-bomb —which contributed mostly to speed up the Soviet atomic programme. It didn't create it.

Joseph McCarthy was nothing but a "consumed but clever demagogue, brutal and unscrupulous. His methods were based on fantastical accusations, false evidence, insinuations and lies, appealing to ignorance, prejudices, hatred and grudge"*

The Tydings comitee of the Senate took charge of making public how idiotic McCarthy's accusations of February 9th 1950 against "205 men and women inside the State Department with credentials from the Communist Pary" were. And since McCarthy lost that initial battle, he switched his attacks —not very cleverly— against big fishes; stating that Marshal and Acheson "had sold China to the communists"...

Then it came the Nixon-McMarren seccurity laws, which along with other further legislation —inspired by Republicans— and executive orders by Ike's "war-like staff" can be compared with similar paranoid measures carried out in Germany in 1933 "because the bloshevists were going to destroy the country".

Those laws only opened the door to ignore the US Constitution and allowed puritan conservative-bastards with power to fire or not to hire anyone who didn't fit their WASP "American way of life".

That sickens me!

—————————————————————
* "A Concise History of the American Republic" by Samuel Eliot Morison; henry Steele Commanger and William E. Leuchtenburg.

 

Yes and no,

I do agree the McCarthism was going to the extreme, but the US had themselves to blame only. They had not cared for the security and top information leaked out.I don´t think that all the spies were for the idealism, no, but certainly for money !! And some spies got alot, some did not.

And it wasn´t just for the US, the British had their problem as well-Kim Philby!

And for the A-bomb leakage. I think even if the leak did not create the Soviet A-bomb it shows the US had a major problem:

"In July 1945, when Nunn May told his Soviet controller that he was due to be sent home soon, Moscow decided to get as much out of him as it could. On July 9 of that year, a week before the Americans tested an atomic bomb, he passed small amounts of enriched uranium to his Soviet handler, later providing details of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. In return, he received $200 and a bottle of whisky."

More on this on the "Spies like us" thread.

 

I stated this before: Anyone; And I mean anyone can get a copy of Kerry's military record through the Freedom of Information Act. It is a public record over which he has absolutely no control.
You want a copy request it. It's yours for the asking.....
However, one can far more easily demolish Kerry's combat record (even without his military record) than Bush's service or lack thereof.

 

Howdy General,

With all due respect you've apparently never read the Verona Files or choose to ignore the evidence.

You would benefit from Venona as well as material from the archives of the Comintern and the Soviet and American Communist parties, this detailed, thorough description of Soviet espionage in America demonstrates how the Venona transcripts became the “touch-stone” of U.S. counterintelligence. Using the decrypts, the FBI and CIA were able to corroborate testimony from defectors like Elizabeth Bentley and Whittaker Chambers. Indeed, Venona decryptions identified most of the Soviet agents the FBI and MI-5 (British counterintelligence) arrested between 1948 and the mid-1950s. Venona confirmed the guilt of the atomic spies, Klaus Fuchs, Theodore Hall, and Julius Rosenberg. Most importantly, the authors believe that Venona provides a solid factual basis for the widespread public consensus. . . that Soviet espionage was serious, that American Communists assisted the Soviets, and that several senior government officials had betrayed the United States.

Widespread Public Consensus, including the Democratic Party among the Republican so when one tries to make a 'Partisian' issue of this topic one is being 'selective' to say the least.

Of course Democrats will forever be playing the 'Civil Liberties' card, just as they did in 1962 Berlely when once again the communist founded, funded and organized the 'Peace Movement'.

If your going to get sick about something, get sick about the failure of liberal democrats to realize how they have been used as pawns in the past and will continue to be played as pawns until they learn to put America ahead of their partisianship.

KRs,
Will