Damned! It's oficial! 4 more years!

notice when i said the word 'moral' i did not put any religious adjective on it.

Although Stevin, would suspect, although you are not religious, your moral code is quite similiar to that of the Judeo-Christian faith, as you are a member of western civilization

Dont worry, i wasnt tryin to diss those that arent religious

 

You're very right

I am in a slightly different situation, being in a Jesuit Highschool, our students were aware of the candidates and their running mates, and were split about 55-45 in favor of bush.

However the VAST majority of American youths are simply ignorant of politics.

And if theyre not informed, they should not vote. I dont care who they vote for, if they do not inform themselves, they should not vote

 

Moderates. Average middle-class citizens with no political inclinations, mostly abundant in urban areas, but not the majority of the population.

Left?! Left of Bush and the fascist from the PNAC, yes, but Kerry is a goddam right-wing centrist.

Does it mean that non-WASP people do not pay taxes and carry an 'inmoral' life or at least that the majority doesn't? (Do you realise how vague is the term 'moral'?)

Because indeed 'morals' are not exclusively religious. But I strongly disagree that a group of persons can label themselves as the 'morally' correct. That's precisely my point: are Catholics more 'inmoral' than the protestants because they pray to images and idols? Is a single mother 'inmoral' because she doesn't have a husband?

 

A little side-note about the 'black vote' here in Va. About a week before election time some cities decided to station a uniformed cop at the polling stations for security reasons. Didn't take long for the NAACP to cry 'foul', that blacks would'nt turn out to vote. I have yet to figure that one out! If you're wanted by the police,maybe you should'nt be voting anyhow. So which way did the 'veterans' vote?

 

Nah! I'd like David Letterman instead!

Then Oprah, then Hillary.

Does this (tastes) has anything to do with intellect or political afinities?

That's one big disadvantage of universal democracy. But I don't think we should go back to XVIII Century or Ancient Greece democracy…

 

Kerry is far,far left for America

Anyone who think bush is a fascist either knows nothing about politics, or is a European( then again, not much diffence)

And Fried, my friend, if you think Kerry is right-moderate, you are further left than Lenin himself

 

At the end of the day...

It dont matter.

Nowt we can do now...

Apart from pull our helmets on and get diggin'...

 

Oprah for Pres.? Will she even fit on Air Force One? Does 'intellect' mean voting for whomever the latest superstar is promoting? "I saw it on MTV,they know everthing cool.Besides thats where I got my taste in music,clothes and even the tattoo I have."

 

Excuse me?? What has that got to do with Barney??

 

Holy mackerel, CvM, what happened to you?

You're sounding so sensible, so moderate, I daresay... What happened to the firebrand in you?

Cheers, mate, no offence

 

Aha, so what the Dems need are a few more female black hispanic young catholics. That should do the trick next time

 

No, he is not. 48% of the country did not think so. Bush didn't whip his arse, he did not win an overwhelming victory: 48% of the electorate [which includes the majority of the most populated and richest states] do not like Bush and the rest of the world —except for Israel— doesn't like him either.

And yes, it was a US election, but Bush's decisions afect the rest of this globalised world.

Just look how Georgie's neighbours voted:

District of Columbia 3

Bush: 19.007 votes (9.3%)    
Kerry: 183.876 votes (89.5%)     
Others: 2.517 votes (1.2%)

It doesn't surprise me why Georgie takes so many holidays. He's going to have to move the White House to Crawford, Texas.

Bloody Europeans! What do they know about politics? After two milleniums of perennial war they managed to overcome nationalist differences and become a united economic, social and political body, who grows stronger and more prosperous every year.

What do I know about politics? I'm just a 'pinko-commie' Frenchie-Kraut who lives in a gigant ranch called Mexico!

Who's the one who doesn't know about politics? I'm not the one who uses the term 'liberal' in a completely wrong context, I'm not the one who thinks Kerry or the Democratic Party is from the 'left', when his and its ideas perfectly fit in the right-wing centrist spot of the universal political field in the same way Bush fits the far right and slightly autoritarian spot.

Indeed, this shows that I'm for forced colectivization of industry and agriculture, supression of civil liberties, all non-communist parties and bloody purges of the nation, starting with a revolution and the destruction of the class society of course!

Come on! Not even you believed that, Patrick!

I made this poll (www.politicalcompass.org) and I did turn out to be a damned reddy, but a moderate one, in the same spot the Dalai-Lama is.

As you very well know I'm for globalisation, capitalism, free trade, liberalism and social democracy. I like the 'intelligent' left, as I use to say. The same 'intelligent' left of Luis Felipe González that transformed franchist Spain, the 'intelligent' left of Adenauer, Lagos and Miterrand.

What is real modern left (though not necessarily a good left)?

It's not so difficult to see, just look at AMERICA, which is in its majority going left: Luis Inácio Lula da Silva in Brazil, Néstor Kirchner in Argentina, Ricardo Lagos in Chile (a most intelligent and well-planned socialist régime that transformed Chile) and even Hugo Chávez in Venezuela (althought this bastard is a far-left Castro or a Lenin-like in process and must be stopped by the Venezolan people).

In 2006 there's even a very high posibility of Mexico having a régime from the left (unfortunately, it's a Chávez-like left with nothing good.)

Actually, Miguel, 52% of the Catholics voted for Bush…

Too damned right. With both houses of congress, majority of governors, no re-election project and three million more votes behind him he only has to take orders from Dick Cheney!!!!!! The question is who will Dick Cheney take orders from?

Fortunately for the rest of the world Bush won't be able to do everything he'd like to do: crush Iran, Syria, Lybia, Cuba and Venezuela.

Why?

One. Unless he re-introduces general conscription, the US armed forces simply have no power to fight and occupy all those countries, not to mention that the defence budget is not enough. Therefore, Bush doesn't have the troops nor the money to do all what he wants, specially if the mess in Iraq doesn't stop. Besides, he has realised that the US can no-longer handle crisis without the international community's aid. He doesn't want to, but he must take it.

Two. The economy must and will stop growing in 2005. Economies will not grow if oil prices keep at $50+ per barrel. Where are Iraq's oil and those Halliburton projects flooding the oil market? Bush's energetic policies are a damned failure and we're about to face an oil crisis if this doesn't change.

Also, the US economy simply cannot move a single step forward until the government's deficit and the current line deficit (this is the import-export balance) are balanced and severely reduced. The economy can't grow if the numbers are -10% of the IBP, which is about one thrillion dollars.

I'm optimistic to a certain extent. Bush's wishes may not be carried out because he's not all-mighty.

[ 05. November 2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: General der Infanterie Friedrich H ]

 

Some comments (rant) from a European on this matter.

Bush won but as Frederich points out, he got 52% of the vote, so the country is more or less splitdown the middle.

52% support Bush and feel he will make the US more secure.
48% Don't think he did a good job, and the invasion of iraq, weapons of mass distructionlies and the economy are just a view examples.

The problem is people didn't vote for Kerry they voted against Bush. There was plenty of coverage in Europe on this election but I personnaly was left wondering when was Kerry going to say something, when was Kerry going to stick the booth in and tell us what he was going to do when elected, what did he stand for etc.

I think thats where the democrates lost it. They were afraid to go on the offenive, now I am sure you can site examples where on individual occasions he did, but generally it just seemed that they were relying on the: 'look what Bush did, I can't possibly do a worse job than that' type of campaign.

Security was a big big issue. Look at Ohio, who lost was it 200,000 jobs in the last 4 years they voted for Bush, why because he will keep them safe from the evil muslim fundamentals.

I think the Republicans scared the hell out of the population into voting for them.

As a European, I am dissapointed that Bush won. Because I think he is stupid, ignorant and inward looking. Thats my opinion.

But I don't honestly know what Kerry would have done about Iraq, European relations, Israel and the so called 'war on terror'.

Finally, there are certain comments floating around this part of the world stating that since the voters put him in and they know what he is capable (or maybe incapable of) they get what they deserve.

Personally I hope the whole sorry Iraq mess is sorted out because at the end of the day Bush won't suffer it is the ordinary Joe soaps will.

Lets hope he spends the next 4 years undoing what he has done in the original 4. (fingers crossed)

 

This happened actually because 'moral values' were first priority for the voters, even those who came from the very poorest districts, the most affected by unemployment. Terrorism came in third place as priority.

 

Where did employement come in?

 

'moral values' I find this a strange one. Over here we would look at issues like:

Employment
Education
Health issues
Social Welfare
Tax

But then we are not at war with terror!

Surely the chance of someone in ohio being targeted by a terror attack is less of an issue than does cited above?

 

I was gonna start off by apologising for this...

But I aint cos this prick has finally pissed me off once too many times...

Ah... bless.

Yet more pearls of wisdom from CVM...

When you finally hit puberty maybe we should have a party for you....

Actually, we will save the party till you grow up!

I used to think you had a brain CVM but this is yet another of your pointless and childish comments.

Do your country a favor and make sure you get your whole head in front of the barrel.

You ever been to Europe? Actually you ever left the State you live in? Why dont you go inhabit a forum more akin to your peculiar world view and that indulges in 'Euro-Bashing'.


Feckin dolt...

 

From verba-volant.net, a daily quote:

"The world is a better place without Saddam. And without Bush...?"

Anonimous

 

Ah... bless.

Yet more pearls of wisdom from CVM... </font>[/QUOTE]Red, I stand by what I said, and furthermore I find it interesting the way you took the comment.

The fact that you found the comment insulting, actually brings joy to my young heart, as if shows that there is still a glimmer of hope for you.

If you at my comment, “anyone who thinks Bush is a fascists either knows nothing about Politics, or is a European,” I at No point stated that Euros know nothing about politics. However their Politik is now drastically different than that of America’s, and the course of the 20th century is the cause.

The 20th century taught Europeans that Nationalism is a dangerous thing that leads to destruction on a massive scale. In America, we learned that Nationalism could bring unity and prosperity. You guys learned that bureaucratic welfare states and big time trade unions were the only cure to class warfare. Over here, we learned that government and unions were at the most, necessary evils. In regards to religion, you guys learned that Catholicism and Christianity were exhausted faiths that had no valuable part in the modern world, we learned that personal faith is now more necessary than ever.

It’s a clear fact, Europe is more socialist than America, you can take that as a good thing, or a bad thing, however it is a fact. America and Europe are no longer side by side in the societal evolutionary path.

Using the word ‘fascism’ implies that someone is FAR Right, and in the European measurement of political ideologies, I can see how you would perceive Bush as a fascist, as your ‘center’ is much, much further left than America’s political center. Now, when I use the line “knows nothing about politics” I am referring to anyone who has the American standard of measure, and still refers to Bush as a fascist, because he simply is not one.

I shall give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that when you refer to ‘puberty’ you are no referring to my sexual maturation but instead my maturation as a ‘man-thinking’ as Emerson put it.

Should this be the case, your comment holds little water, as you seem to value my maturity in regards to Political Ideologies as childish as they do not agree with your own. Europe still treats America, and Americans as inferior in regards to intellectual and political matters. This of course your opinion, which you are entitled to thanks to your Divine Creator.

Again, you take my comment as childish because it does not coincide with your way of thinking. My Friend Red, you call me childish, yet you brought the issue of my going through Puberty into this discussion, think on that one

You know what Red, that is an option I am proud to say is available to me, as in my country, my people have the right to carry arms

Sadly I’ve yet to go to Europe, however there is a large likelihood I shall be visiting the British Isles within the next 18 months. To answer your other question, yes I most certainly have left the state in which I currently reside, I have had the privilege of traveling extensively throughout my country, from the Liberal New England to the Run Down south, to the Wonderful banks of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers which I have made my home in the most recent years.

Red, I seek not to indulge in ‘Euro-bashing’ as if I am not careful in my criticisms of the continent and its people, and I’m in effect criticizing myself, as would any individual of proud European descent. In regards to your other comment, I shall not leave this forum, I’m quite fond of it and its members, yes even you Red (and fried )

Right Honorable Gentleman

L'un, le seulement,

CvM

 

I'm not moderator anymore of the FFZ, but a word of warning gentlemen...........

civility please