Fury please state your case, TheRedBaron has stated his so where's yours? What is your case I (assume) for supporting Mr Bush I have some friends in America they all think Mr Bush is a warmonger and a loony and not to be trusted.
Richard, my case is simple. As I understand it, this forum is comprised of scholars, hobbyists, historians, and above all friends. When comments are made like the following; and they are counter productive to the discussion of the issue. My point was stated in my previous post, Red has lost his objectivity and is spouting emotion, not facts and certainly not a discussion between friends with mutual interests. As to my position, if you are interested in discussion, I am neither for Mr. Bush nor against him all the time. Like any man, he has moments of greatness interspersed with ordinary and sometimes disappointing circumstances. I am pro America for better or worse, hopefully always striving for better.
I think my problem might be that I just can't get myself overly concerned about another country's foriegn policy. I have my opinions about going in to Iraq. When it first happened I was deeply dissapointed because I knew it was a mistake. After the "invasion" was over I thought, well we're there we might as well stay until it's stable. Now, and I hope this doesn't sound callous, I think we should get the heck out. Let them destroy themselves and their countries. I think this for two reasons. One, it doesn't matter what we, the lone superpower, do around the world. No matter what we do, we can't please anyone. And two, plainly speaking, it's costing me and the other 200 million US taxpayers too much damn money. In my view it's not worth the grief. Furthermore, I don't think that many Europeans and Americans really understand the scope of US foriegn policy. For Americans AND Europeans, whether you like it or not, the core of US policy is to preserve our way of life. Yes, the fat cats will get fatter, but our lifestyle has been preserved and it has vastly improved since WWII. So, if we were to decide to turn within ourselves, become more isolated, all hell would break lose. I personally wouldn't care. We in America would be just fine. Oh there would be adjustments, but I beleive America would be much better off . I'm not so sure about those of you from the "old country". Finally, I personally feel that the President of Iran and the President of Venezuela are typical despots who care nothing for their own people, care only about their "agenda" (hating the US), and are basically uneducated nutbars. However, I would never dream of assasinating them from a half a mile away. Yes I called the leader of Iran a nutbar. Many folks said Hitler was smart too and were very imressed by his ability to know what to say and when to say it. I'll take Bush of even HILLARY over that any day. Later
Oops, I forgot the link. One too many Jack Daniels. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us
Here's the kicker. Now WE have to apologize to the Muslim world. This is utterly ridiculous. If someone farts tomorrow in Sri Lanka are we going to have to apologize for that? I'm sure if an asteroid threatens earth that'll be our fault too. Probably George and Condy ordered it to collide with the earth. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings Wake up world.
Would I hell. It's like the 'peaceful' parade in London at the weekend by Muslims; protesting about cartoons in a Danish (and other nationality) newspapers which weren't illegal to start with. They were so 'offended' by the violent Muslim reaction last week, a whole four THOUSAND of them turned up to show their displeasure. 4,000....doesn't that say it all? My local amateur football side gets bigger crowds than that! [ 12. February 2006, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
THat's no the problem, the problem is the region is sitting on the world's oil keg and if you tamper too much you'll disturb oild production so much here and in other oil producing states that you are going to seriously damage world economy even more than what it is already. Iraqi oil is still to flow into the market again, now if you drop anything on Iran just imagine the boycotts. Anytime some gangster blows up another Nigerian pipeline, or Chavez throws another tantrum in Venzuela the barrel climbs another buck or two. Imagine an attack on Iran and what this is going to do to the market.
Considering there is a number of Irish in this forum, wouldn't it be a good idea adding "saints" to the list above?
The gulf of comprehension between Muslim and Western Democracies I can understand, but deplore. But the widening gap in worldview between the USA and Europe - a generalisation, I agree - which can be seen in microcosm on this forum, is very sad indeed. Possibly bin Laden's ( in his view ) 'greatest' achievement.
Personally I think George W should have thought of any other "good reasons" to attack Iraq. Later on nothing was found of the "miracle weapons" that was mentioned. Just because of those lies many countries find it hard to agree to that policy of attacking Iraq, and any other aggressive plan in case they are being fed similar lies. That was totally stupid. After Sept 2001 the whole world was with Bush ( almost ) and after Iraq ...??
Good article Richard ! Makes sense to me and all the more reason to find a way off oil dependance. I think a greater threat to the world is North Korea's nuclear program. It also shows how temperory an ally the USA is. In the 70's we were selling Iran everything they would buy for their military. We probably educated their engineers on how to go nuclear.
As I have said several times the wmd's are still being covered up, they exist and have been moved in part. Be assured the present administraion knows this, why they have stated that there wer lies is a cover up. nearly every vet that has served over there on the two occassions have siad there are wmd's, in fact I will tell you the guys have taken pics of them. Media even in this day and age is a propaganda ploy and the worlds populace has fallen gravely into it.
Richard, that article was a good read. Problem remains though. What does the world do with a regime that has openly said it would like to see another state "wiped off the face of the earth". Ignore it? Let it build nuclear weapons? It's a tough situation. Later
Well I can not see nuclear weapons being used it’s a no win situation, just a game of bluff I think all side should sit down and start talking if they can. For the moment it looks like things have settled down, it’s a waiting game for now.
Destroying a country is easy but when it comes to clearing up the mess well we are not very good at that one, Afghanistan and Iraq are still a mess. Going around and stamping your authority left, right and centre is not very smart. Who ever is doing it.
My edit time is up I was going to add that all the Red Tape has not helped in the clean up of the mess.
