French vs. English

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060324/ap_on_re_eu/chirac_english_protest

I don't quite understand the big deal, being an American and all.

Later

 

This seems a petty thing to be reported upon, but I guess it probably is an important issue in France. I wonder how he would feel if his official language was German? Lately it seems more likely that it is going to change to Farsi or some other middle-eastern dialect considering who they have been climbing into bed with in international politics.

 

Gentlemen,
There is no love lost between the French and English. Note I said English; the effect when you tell French people that you're actually Scots/Welsh /Irish has to be seen to be appreciated! The rest of the UK doesn't feel the same way about the French, incidentally, which is why my wife and I both drive Citroens.
The use of English has always been a bugbear to the French; go back 20 years or so and there were laws banning the use of certain English phrases in French (like Le Weekend, for example! ) in an attempt to 'purify' the language. Don't know if that's still the case.

 

Gordon, you say "the rest of the UK doesn't feel the same way about the French,". I am not sure what way the English feel about the French.

A second question, as someone who is in the European market sphere of influence, do you think that the adoption of English as a more accepted business language is because of more trade with the UK or because of trade with both the UK and the United States?

 

Ice,
The English cannot stand either the French or the Germans. Then again, they're not that keen on the Irish, Scots or Welsh either!
As far as English language goes, it's becoming more standard due to trading with both the UK and US, but more so the latter. In the heady days of empire, other nations were obliged to learn English because a) Britain was the world's largest trading hegemony and b)British people are notoriously reluctant to learn foreign languages. Only the latter is still true, obviously.

 

Iceman, perhaps it is similar to Texas where Spanish is over taking English as a primary language. I read that the census people say Anglos are a minority now in Texas and several other southwestern states and it is only going to get worse as time goes on.
Businessmen love cheap labor.

 

I just had to laugh...That funny French guy....getting his fanny in a fit because a fellow Frenchman is speaking English.....Only the French!

But what I was wondering about is what TA is referring to. Last few times I was in Califonia I notice it is getting more and more difficult to get yourself understood in.....English! Signs, documents,e tc are often in both English and Spanish! In several stores, I couldn't make myself clear because I didn't speak any Spanish!!!! Don't know whether to , o r . It was very

 

Thousands of Mexican nationals come across the border each day to the the US and stay because the minimum wage jobs are more than what they get paid in Mexico. The government makes a big deal about "homeland security" but they turn a blind eye to this because big business loves cheap labor. Most of the Mexican nationals send as much money as they can back to their familys in Mexico.

I don't blame the Mexicans or the businessmen but I do blame the governments of Mexico and the USA for this stupid policy.

 

TA I don't think that anglos are the minority, yet. The latest census did show that they no longer constitute greater than 50%, though, so they are no longer the majority all by themselves.

 

in my opinion (as horrible as it sounds) is that we should erect a large wall similar to the berlin wall on the mexican border, thiswould be effective to an extent, we could also have "floodgates" to control mexicans coming in and out, so a selected bunch can come in for work...just an idea...

 

Bloody cheek I am english and I don't dislike anyone we all got to get on.

But I do see your point Gordon some of my mates bang on more so about the french.

As a footnote one of my mates is Irish and we got very well

[ 24. March 2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Richard42 ]

 

DUUUHHHH!!!!!

(ROTFL)

 

I think technology allows us, today, not to have to worry about language limitations, specially if it's a matter in which heads of state are involved.

Language is one of the most important thing in the way we do things (linguistical structures determine people's structure of thinking: English is a practical language = Anglos are practical; German is a deep and sophisticated language = Germans are good philosophers and theologians; French is a beautiful, sensual language = French are good artists and have a special sensitivity; etcetera). Nevertheless, there is no earthly power which can controll language. There is no human power which can prevent a language from dying, a language from changing or evolving.

I am sure Egyptians and Jews hated having to speak stupid Greek in their very homeland. And once they learned Greek, not because they wanted, but because it was the way it was (and period), Latin replaced Greek. Centuries later Latin changed and Italian, Romanian, French and Portuguese were born.

If Europe's linguistical future is to see French and German die and be replaced for English… what a pity, but no one's going to change that. And that goes for the United States too. No matter if there's a wall, a river or an ocean, in a couple decades the US is going to be a bilingual country, as Canada. Bush, Huntington, the Border Patrol and even the Holy Spirit can NOT change that.

Language can't be controlled. Period.

 

Then there is this argument. My paternal grandmother's family spoke French (Belgian) in the home here (US). My Maternal grandparents families spoke Italian (a much more beautiful language than French I might add) in the home (here in the US). My family now speaks English out of necessity. The mother tongues were dropped in a generation.

There is absolutely no reason the US has to become bi-lingual. Period.

 

I don't believe that the US has to become bi-lingual, but what would it hurt? Nothing. We are stubborn about it though, so it probably won't happen. This is not the first time that an influx of people with different languages has challenged the area where they arrive, live and work. In the big arrival ports for European immagrants there were periods of time when the ballots and street signs were bi-lingual. Italian, German, I don't remember another.

The biggest thing that is allowing the hispanic people in the US to continue to speak their language is their large presence, businesses capitalizing on pandering to their buying power, and guilty liberals who can't stand to see anybody not get their share of my tax dollar, even if they are not contributing citizens of our country. When you can sneak into California and get a driver's license, send your kids to the public schools and get welfare while still speaking your native language and not gaining legal status and the burdens that come with it, why change?

 

Not always. Situations are always different. The point here is that no matter who, Huntington, so-called 'pinko liberals' nor anyone has power over language. Linguistical changes are uncontrollable, arbitrary and unstopable.

English until now has been the dominant language within the US, strong enough to kill many native languages (a culturally regretable but linguistically inevitable process) and prevent others from gaining power. But it doesn't have why to remain that way. No one can decide whether English will remain invincible.

 

Ahhhh...the French!
By treaty, the international language of aviation is.......English! (surprise) However, this situation has never been popular with the air traffic contollers in French airspace. Back when I used to make regular flights in and out of the Mediterranean, the Marseille regional controllers would absolutely refuse all communication not in French, regardless of international law. So if you wanted your clearance, guess what....Bonjour Marseille!

 

Absolutely wrong - The Historian is making sweeping, unsupported statements as usual, but that's the Scots for you.... We are very open-minded ; of course, it's a known fact that you can't trust the fr*gs an inch but the women look quite tasty, and as for the Scotch Loonies they're all right if you can keep them off the booze !

The English are easily the most tolerant and fair-minded people in the World - it'd just be nice if everyone else didn't have to be reminded of the self-evident fact that one of us is worth ten of them....

 

Hmmm.....
There's a case for Scots being bilingual; most of us speak a mixture of Lowland Scots (or Lallans)and the Queen's English normally (and no, they're NOT necessarily the same language with different accents!). Then there are Gaels who speak Gaelic and also English, and ethnic minorities who speak their own languages, Lallans AND English!
English is the official language, obviously, but a few Councils in the Highlands have put up road signs in Gaelic as well as English, and our Politbureau..sorry Parliament is talking about making that nationwide.

 

Centuries ago French was adopted as the language of 'Court' in England. No longer formally practised but it remains the case that Royalty still feel obliged to learn it. HM Queen a great example. It was also the language of the Diplomatic Corps until much later. References remained well into last century as, for example, diplomatic vehicles in Britain used to be badged with 'CD' plates for Corps Diplomatique, instead of DC.

Martin is quite right about British tolerance. If England and Scotland are in a sports competition and England goes out, the English then support Scotland. If Scotland are the ones to go out, they support whoever is next playing England. Of course this is quite frequent in football as Scotland don’t bother to have terms like ‘Second Round’ in their dictionaries.

And while on use of English by foreigners, Scots or Welsh do not use or translate all English words or phrases. For example, neither appear to have any usage or equivalent of "It's my round"?

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