The Aussies participated in many actions and covered themselves in mostly unreported glory. The Ausse Sas fought as a combat unit and not as a group or team of coverts. Their history is well documented in Vietnam. They can be rightly proud of their actions in which infantry took part and not just engineers. Ill post some of their actions later when I get time if no one else has done so.
I don't know about any Belgians fightingin Vietnam, but a unit fought in Korea. But I don't know which one.
Bill, I missed that in your last post. You say British? Do you know of which British? As far as Im aware no British military units participated in Vietnam. Individuals I know of nothing that way either. Harold Wilson British P;rime Minister refused to support militarilly but diplomatically a different matter. I think the final operations of USA in Vietnam ie regarding the evacuation of embassy etc was something the US militry can be rightly proud of, efficient all arms co-ordination with a big stick behind it if necessary...One thing if any that showed the way the US forces would be rebounding in the future. Only marred by the Cambodian incident name slips me now whereby ship taken over by Cambodian forces? Lots of US Marine rescue casualties?
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/Commitment.htm http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/Australian-Units.htm http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/AATTV.htm http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/rum.htm
Well, thank you all for your spirited comments on this situation. one of you asked me how the US won Vietnam if that country is now communist, which is what we were fighting to prevent. We won the war MILITARILY, byu which i mean we won in a military sense since we were not beaten in open(or any other type) of combat during the 10 years we were fighting there. When we left in 1972, we had not lost a battle(no major one that I know of)and yes, our KIAs were greater but that's the price you pay for freedom(I am in no way tarnishing or attempting to tarnish the great sacrifice our men gave us in the jungles of Vietnam with my last statement)
We can dress it up as much as we like, the facts of the matter are, the war was fought by the north with one objective. The objective was met. Vietnam became one country under the North Vietnamese hegmony, the US aim of securing the South as an independant nation was lost. North vietnam may not have won numerous battles but they won the war. By your judgement the British won the American war of Independance, we just decided to leave. You lost we won. You only think you won because you now control the USA.
Jet, have a look at Long Tan action 1966 For an interesting Aussie action. Nui Dat August 17th too sorry.
Hello Urqh - Concerning the British deployment of troops, this is what I know personally. There was a RAF unit assigned to our base, but it was very small. Two of their troops billeted with us in our barracks as these barracks were not your standard fare of open bays and latrines, but semi private rooms more based on the lines of a hotel room with two men per room and four men sharing a showering area. These two men's names escape me now other than the senior nco ( a flight sergeant I believe, it has been so long now ) had the first name of Frank, and they were both mechanics and dealt with Vulcan bombers and other British aircraft designs, but it was rather "hush hush" as these British aircraft ( supposedly ) only were brought in under the cover of night in to the hangers and to be wrenched upon, and then left before dawn. At any rate, this is what we were told. However, as I say, these two British servicemen did live with us, ate in our chow hall, and drank our beer. I think all told there might have been a total of ten or twelve members of the RAF there with us assigned to a series of three of four of these barracks. Oh, I also recall there was a Scotsman named Farquahr ( spelling ) who was serving with this same RAF detachment and used to drop by their room. Sorry, but I do not recall the unit number. Also, the incident with the ship off of Cambodia was the Mayaguez. A number of the crew had been taken captive, and interned on an island off the Cambodian coast. Bill
Urgh - I failed to mention, that our base of operations in 1975 was NOT in Vietnam. We were stationed in Hawaii, and were deployed there to assist in the evacuation from Saigon to the Phillipines, to Guam, Hawaii, and then California and other parts of the U.S. However, this RAF detatchment WAS stationed with us in Hawaii, and it was reported by some of there members to us that they had "covert" operations going on not mentioned by the world press. Maybe it was all "spooks and spies", or just b.s. brought on by too much beer, but this is what was told to us by them. When we were called up to assist in the evac, they did not go in with us that was for sure, and like I say, this unit, what ever it was, was not very big, ten to twelve guys. I know they were awfully secrative. Work beckons. Bill
Hi Bill, Ive been looking around today on any Brit involvement. One of the links I have put up in this thread is from Britians small wars, it contains stories of Brit involvement in Vietnam under the heading rumour control.. Must say I am not going to say there were no Brits involved. The embassy was certainly protected by Bris servicemen, Ghurkas are mentioned.... Hastings aircraft seemed to have been flown in from various UK colonial posts in the far East to help Anzac communications and transports etc. Certainly I will agree with what some say that Brit special forces would certainly have not have passed up the chance to train and practice with their Anzac or US colleagues and must surely have been there in small rotating numbers. Even one guy statine Airfield built in Thailand by RAF but not used to his knowledge, broke up apparatly... Intelligence gathereing would certainly have occured, Britain still had forces in the East at that time and would alomost certainly have completed such missions and the RAF have always been involved in siging/elint intelligence gathering.. So I wont push the fact that no Brits would have taken part..They almost certainly did on the sidelines in my view. However getting the information is difficult. Many Brits in the hundreds apparently volunteered for Austrailian forces off their own bat it seems and served under Aussie command as Aussies.. Learn summit new every day... Yep the Cambodian incident, remember that at the time as a teenager..followed it through on the media...After the successful withdrawal from Saigon this incident blighted the great success of that time. Regards
I have to agree with you Urgh, in no way did America win the Vietnam War. The North Vietnamese were numerous, they were firece fighters, and they were familiar with the environments they were fighting in. Even if America did win, such huge losses (in my view) could not compensate for such a victory. Thousands of US soldiers died in a war that was very unpopular at the time, and the Americans had a huge disadvantage against the North Vietnamese. I've got another question. When the USA entered the war were the French still fighting or were they gone by the time AMerican Troops entered the battle ?
Some of you guys need to head down to the library and check out some vietnam books. 60,000....not bad over a 16 year period 1959-1975. More than that died in a single day at Antietam. And as far as not ever losing a battle in the field The u.s. military and all it's resources got their arses kicked by a bunch of 90lb rice farmers. The south vietnamese people in charge were either crooks, disliked by the average ricefarmer. The generals had no idea how to fight a war in vietnam...Westmoreland ( old school artilleryman) is a perfect example. My opinion Vietnam was about dollars $$$$$. One of the conspiracy theories around JFK's death. When america goes to war, certain businessmen make millions. Read the book ABOUT FACE by Col. David Hackworth if you want a good read on Vietnam & Korea. [ 18. May 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Kampfgruppe - von Root ]
A big book, anyone wanting to read it, make sure you take 2 weeeks off work first. As for individual battles that is not my conern in posting in this thread, my concern is that a young US guy is of the belief that America won that war....To say I am incredulous is to less of a state of mind on reading that statement. First views in my mind were, has revisionism now reached recent wars and just what if anything is being taught on Vietnam conflict in the USA education stream? Battles lost were not of importance to me here, war beng won statements were. I can quote many battles or moreover smaller actions that indeed the VC and NVA completed in their favour. Kontum fire bases, Operation Crimp and even Rolling Thunder which cannot be seen as a succes or a win by any stretch of the imagination. And yes I have read Beckworth..
The ANZAC Force: The Australians and New Zealanders contributed 8,300 soldiers which is included in a grand total of 46, 852 personnel and advisors. 1962-1972 Australia: (A National Serviceman (Draftee) Served 12 months and formed no more than 50% of any unit. Regulars were forced to have a 2-year gap between tours.) Number served (corrected) 49,708 Casualties (KIA, WIA, MIA) 2,430 of which fatalities 502 Australian Awards 1064 US Awards to Australians 395 Vietnamese Awards to Australians 533 New Zealand (100% volunteer) 39 Fatalities including 1 civilian nurse, 1 NZSAS and a man who served in the US Marines. Canada: 40,000 to 30,000 Canadians from throughout Canada are estimated to have gone south to have fought with the US in Vietnam. Officially the number is 5,000 because many Canadians used a US address. The Canadians were called "wrongways" by American soldiers as some Americans were trying to flee to Canada to avoid Vietnam, not the opposite. Casualties: 106 KIA and 7 MIA. However veteran groups believe the number of KIA is between 300-400. Britain: British personnel trained US Combat tracker teams in Malaysia. Some British SAS are rumoured to have joined their Aussie counterparts to serve (meaning no comment by the British government), and a Special Forces exchange programme between Britain and the US operated at that time. Also a high number of new British emigrants to Australia also served in Vietnam. In 1975 the HMS Mermaid, A Royal Navy Frigate, was made ready to evacuate British nationals from Saigon, but; the need did not arise. At the time of Vietnam, there was talk in Britain about involvement. As I remember, it was mostly directed at the prospects of escalation to territories where Britain was involved, and ultimately Australia which of course would have been the same as an attack on Britain. Units, ships and aircraft where deployed or moved about in the general area, without commitment in force in Vietnam. Reports of forces ‘going’ to Vietnam could be taken as newspaper hype for forces deploying somewhere in the area. While there was not a British military channel for ‘volunteering’ for Vietnam, there were several stories circulating in the military how to get involved. This was certainly something I and my oppos seriously considered at the time. However, in retrospect to our credit (I think) considering the drive of a young man in uniform, we concluded the motive would be just to fight. I don't remember the exact thinking, but we assessed it as a war not really worth it. Some 40 years on, I have never changed that belief. A far nearer and ongoing danger (to us) was of course the situation with the Soviets in Europe an Britain. I heard stories of men who were supposed to have ‘work their passage’ to Vietnam, but I never personally knew any or have ever met any? No.9
Hi Urgh--I too have heard and read about--sometime in the past, that there was a British unit serving in Nam. I have no clue which unit but--I think they were either Engineers or Sappers--i'm not sure. I read this in a Magazine about Vietnam about 12 or so years ago.
