why do we like the german warmachine so much?

I have been interested in WW1 and WW2 for as long as I can remember and I have always had a "thing" for the german military. I am not sure why, but somehow the German warmachine fascinates me more then any other army. It has to do with their equipment, soldiers mentality/discipline, but also because i always tend to have a weakness for the underdog (which Germany was in a way). People that do not care much for ww2 do not understand this....and it can cause some frowned eyebrows.

there are a lot of people here that all seem to share this "love" for the german side of the war (equipment, tactics etc.)

Have you ever wondered why you feel like that? I mean, I am from Holland and we still pretend to hate germans(although that has to do more with football(-soccer) nowadays). Many of you come from the former Allies, but still seem to go german.

Be assured that i am in no way drawn to the dark side of the germsn war effort and do not share any of their beliefs or ideas and crimes. Its just that their army looks so.... COOL. Even their soldiers look much rougher and tougher in action photos then their allied counterparts... know what I mean?

your thoughts?

 

This is all true. You also have to remember that Germany is a young country, no older then 100yrs at the end of the second world war. For a country to be 50years or so old, and capable of taking on countries that have existed for hundred of years, that are seen as the Great Powers of the World, you have to respect the fact that the Germans grasped the military tactics, armanent, strategies, and the fighting spirit more efficiently and a lot quicker then the rest of the world.

We respect the Germans for this and are fascianted at the same time. here was a group of men fighting for a cause they believed in, and fighting very efficently and were very well trained. The allied armies were unprepared for such a fight, as the Germans had once already tried to take over the world, and were making another attempt and had thwarted Poland and France in a matter of a month or two, and had almost wiped out the british expeditionary task force at Dunkirk. Their weapons were, for the most part, superior to the Aliies and were also feared by the allies. The allies were fighting to stop Fascism and the Germans, while the Germans were fighting for their country, for their leaders, for their people.

Thats my two cents worth - hope i didnt ramble too much

 

Heh, I first got interested in WW2-the Germans, their uniforms--because of my mother.

I started asking questions, and there were always dicussions of somekind going on at the supper table. Next came the Combat reruns every Saturday and Sunday at 2:00 pm. Then came Hogans Heroes every weekday at 4:30 pm.

As the years went by, in the early to mid 70's, we got "Black Sheep Squadron". Then more exposure to WW2 thanks to McHales Navy.

Many many Saturdays and Sundays were spent at Flato Park across the street from my house, and or the Lutheran Church grounds also across the street, where we played war wearing first our Dallas Cowboys football helmets, then we graduated to wearing helmets that we got from the army surplus store. I got mine from my father.

Then there came the toys. There used to be a killer set of American and German soldiers that was out many years ago called "Battleground". Spent many a Saturday evening at my next door neighbors house setting up the "Battleground" toys on his fathers pooltable. Then we would use our windup Evil Knevil (Spelling?) windup motocycles and let em rip into the soldiers. Needless to say, they always lost.

Then came the first BB Guns! We would buy a sack of toy soldiers from the local convience store for about .25 cents. We would then nail each one to the fence, and proceed to shoot them to bits till there was nothing left except maybe the stubbles you could call legs.

Then I started reading Sgt Rock, G.I.Combat, Unknown Soldier, Blackhawk and Sgt. Fury War comics. I "graduated" into reading library books.

While all this was happening, we had the war movies.

We always chose to be the Germans, I dont know why.

You asked and I answered.

Cheers--Carl.

[ 09 April 2001: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

For me, it was all the wartime stories from my grandfather. My family could be called a military family. Great Grandfather, grandfather, father and them myself were in the military. You must admit, the Germans are renown for their efficiency and organizational skills. Militarily, they have been on the forefront in strategies and specifically, the formation of a general staff that was way ahead of its time. Politics set aside, I believe that is why all of us tend to lean towards the German military. They always seem to put us in awe of their accomplishments. Give credit where credit is due.

 

I just think that the fact that Germany was able to take on so much pressure and still have a great deal of pressure themselves to give the other countries of the war. They could have had any invasinos coming from all around them, and they still stood their ground.

To add to that, I believe Adolf Hitler was one of the greatest military leaders of our time. Sure he made some crucial errors that caused to his downfall (D-day), but overall he was able to hold out a country basically on their own against the world. I do also believe that his motives were completely out of line with all the streotypes and prejudice, but he was a military genius in my mind.

 

For me, as an American, it was the whole 'other side' question.

Everyone talks about the Allies might, will, and fight for democracy. I got curious and started studying Germany and was soon fully attached to it. I dont study America, England, France, Russia, Japan, or anything like I do Germany, and I really feel connected to them. Nothing I can explain without getting raised eyebrows or rolled eyes, but its there, and really hard to explain.

Alright, Ive probably scared enough people with this post. But its truthful and its why I like studying Germany most.

 

For this post, I award you the War Merit Cross with Swords, and War Service Cross 1st class. (If I had them of course)

 

My initial interest concerned the misapprehension that Germany had begun the war with weapons in her arsenal only near war's end...
That corrected by research, I wondered how the Wermacht could have won its battles with what amounted to somewhat inferior equipment...
Discovering the particulars & peculiarities, from bungling nazi "political appointees", to those "wonder weapons" which actually were built and used (although without much effect) just "thickened the plot"
The whole series of events seems like some sort of grand epic of fiction, with the Germans as the guys who "made a deal with the Devil" to achieve world domination, and paid the price as a people by being defeated so thoroughly that their country was occupied in some fashion for 50 years by the conquerers.
All the "what ifs" and "could have beens" of the German side seem somehow more compelling, even though knowing full well that the nazis were one of the most evil organizations in world history, and their defeat saved countless lives.
Plus they just had spiffier uniforms!
Those helmets alone had me wishing as a kid that I could have been goose-stepping along with some Wermacht division long before I so much as knew what "Wermacht" meant.
Not to mention the all-black SS togs...
Perhaps the nazis really did tap into some common thread of the human psyche with their "sturm-und-drang" business of massive rallies, thundering drums, torches galore, nebulously mystical symbols, and the concept of belonging to a "master race" held back by the vastly numerically superior "sub-men" out of a dread for what these so-called "supermen" might do if unleashed...

 

What a compliment, nice job mart.

 

I agree, great post Killjoy, double thumbs up and you earned an Iron Cross 2nd Class in my book.

 

Dear Mart,

My personal interest in all of this is strictly an off-shoot of my family history research that I have been conducting for the past 10 years. After hitting a brick wall at the early 1700's I decided to concentrate on my late father's generation. He, along with every male ancestor in my family of that generation, served in either the Luftwaffe, Heer, Waffen SS or Volkssturm. My primary goal from the onset was to finally locate my grandfather's grave (see http://www.feldgrau.com/halbesearch.html ) Having done that, I am now filling in the blanks for a future family history book. I don't wan't to sound like an apologist, but this seems like as good a time as any to voice some concerns seen through the eyes of a first generation American and son of a Wehrmacht vet. Growing up in this environment in the U.S. was not easy. My father endured his share of taunts and spray-painted swastika's at his place of work. The older kids at school would sometimes "Heil" me in the corridors - that didn't bother me as much as it did my father. When I sent away for a German militaria catalog at age 14 I almost got the beating of my life from my father ("Do you vant to think Nazi's live here?!" he screamed at me) I make no apologies for who my father, or ancestors were - but - after you take away the fancy uniforms and glorified documentaries, all that is really left are ordinary men cast into deplorable situations.

 

WOW!!! I have never considered what it must have been like for anyone of German descent to come to Amercia post-WWII!!

I once had a discussion with the mother of one of my PT patients who did just that and was rather "surprised" to hear her extol the initial "value" of Adolph Hitler to the German people!! (That is...he gave them a sense of national pride, brought them out of a depressed era, etc.)

Of course, what he eventually brought them into was "hell"!! BUT, she posed some ideas that I had never considered!

I do not believe that every German who put on a uniform or worked in a factory was a committed Nazi....many were just people who loved their country and wanted to serve. Granted, my knowledge of German history is rather limited, but living in an area that is chock full of "Volga (Russian) Germans"...I have gained a different perspective from people who, as Americans, had to return to the country of their heritage to fight a madman and his cronies!

 

I'll have some of those medals that are hanging on yer chest chris...you seem to have plenty

u remind me of a Russian veteran....or a xmas tree, which was it again??

 

This goes to prove I have way to much time on my hands. I got bored and started looking at all the old topics and came across this one, which seemed rather interesting. I read all the posts and all I could think about is why am I so interested in the german army of world war two. Every time in the past when I was asked this questiong I always had a good answer, but they never seemed like good answers to me, well I might as well just say them since that is what I'm leading up to.

I feel childish when I say this but, one of the main reasons I started to have an interest in the German Army is because of their uniforms. I mean they looked so professional compared to a GIs uniform. I always wanted one of my own, thankfully reenacting helped make that possible. That interest began all my learning of the german army in world war two. I found out about all the weapons and vehicles they had and the battles they fought. That increased my interest and I am still not a hundred percent sure why I'm interested in the german army. Another reason is that I always seem to have an interest in the underdogs in a conflict. I have always believed that my interest was a clean one and I have always had respect for all the sides that fought during world war two. Don't confuse that with their policital beliefs which were wrong for many countries during the war. It is the men who fought not their governments that I care about.

I think that this is an good topic to discuss and I'm sure that alot of people on this forum, have interesting reasons for being for taking an interest in the german army.

 

Well said PG, but for one thing. We need not worry about what someone else thinks of what we like to read about or collect--it AINT any of their business anyway.

We need to drop these "politically correct" disclaimers, too. I can recall that I only used it one time, but decided to permanently drop any disclaimer on what I like to read about or watch on TV--it certainly will not make one an evil being to have interest in past German history or its military.

In all these years, I have had only ONE person have and say they had a problem with my interest in the German military and German vets. This is due to his thickheaded blindness and idiocy, when it comes to this subject.

When I calmly talked about my interest in German military history especially in WW2. This person blurted out "Well what about our vets?" "What are you doing about OUR vets?" "Dont YOU think about THEM?" After he finished being an idiot about it, I said my response.

I calmly explained my interests, and then rambled off a small but growing list of vets organizations I am an honorary lifetime member of BECAUSE of my interests and work. For instance: The first vets organization I became an honorary lifetime member of is the 501st P.I.R. of the 101st Airborne Div--Vietnam Chapter, thanks to a vet/friend of mine who was in that unit in Nam. This vet friend of mine was in many fights and was in Operation Ripcord, and saw detached service elsewhere in country.

The next "honor" I got was, that I was made an honorary lifetime member of the French Forign Legion, and the F.F.L's all German Battalion, Indochina.

Then I became an honorary Crewman of U 181, honorary member of the Kriegsmarine, and honorary member of U 2540. I possibly have a chance to be an honorary lifetime member of the Knights Cross Veterans Association, and will be trying my bets for the same status with the Medal of Honor Society, as well.

Not a bad list of credentials if I say so Myself.

I hate bragging but, SOME people like this now enlightened person, force it out of me.

 

I guess I'll jump in aswell and state my reasons why I'm interested in Germany and WW2.

To tell the truth, I have no bleeding idea. My father's dad was in the Wehrmacht for approximately one and a half weeks, then he was sent back to manage his factory. The other served from 1937-1945 without a break. Neither talked much about the war, because neither did much during it.

My dad was never conscripted because he wasn't fit enough. Military and war was never much of a topic at home. At least not until I got deeply interested in war.

I suppose, at the end of the day, that it comes back to childhood traumas. My Kindergarten was on a military compound known as "FüAk Hamburg, Offiziersschule des Heeres", the building was leased for a symbolic fee to the church that ran the Kindergarten. So every day I saw our soldiers and half of NATO. I could tell different country's uniforms apart when I was five, so my parents tell me.

When I came to England at the tender age of 5, I naturally went to an English Primary school at first and did not want to leave even though there was a German school I could have gone to as well. I never had a bad experience at this school in the five years I was there. In fact, quite the opposite. While I remember occasional jokes about the war, there was no harassment as mentioned above. Ironically, my best friend there was Japanese.

Somehow, I've always been fascinated by wars and military operations. In every era, of every nation, but most of all Germany. Why? I don't know. Partly it is the "underdog" mentality. How can a single nation the size of Germany nearly beat the whole world twice in thirty years?? How can it be that this single country has even today one of the largest economies in the world??? How come??? I have no idea.

I got really interested in WW2 only after buying the game Panzer General II. I wanted to know more about the tanks and vehicles I was fighting with. That led to everything else. Thanks to my time in the German army I also got an insight into modern armies and found them equally fascinating. I still try to keep abreast of today's developments in all fields, again focusing on Germany.

BTW - an observation I have made is that Germans and Japanese always seem to get along. You can put a bunch of people in a room, all complete strangers, and if there's a German and a Jap in there you can bet that after five minutes, while all the others are still exchanging stony looks the German and the Japanese will be happiy chatting away about pets, cooking or whatever. It's highly curious, but I've made this experience several times!

 

Thanks for bringing this one to light Pz. I think much of the interest in the Third Reich has already been said. I have been fascinated with Germany ever since i was young. I have no idea why. I will tell you Yankies a secret but don't tell any one else. I even support the German national football team. And for an Englishman, thats treason.

I think i also have a thing for the bad guys. How many here are Star Wars fans. And of those, how many root for the Empire and Darth. I know i do.

But, in the end, despite our admiration and respect for the German war machine, i am sure we all realise what a good thing it was that in the end it was defeated. It is such a pity that such a body of men and machines of such perfection should be used to serve such evil.

 

I always fear alienateing someone because of my interest in ww2. A friend of my family who is jewish was extremely upset when she found out I started ww2 reenacting as a german. I told her it has nothing to do with any policital beliefs and she replied with that it would impossible to reenact a german soldier without anything political being involved. This person is now on good terms with me again, but I still fear losing any friends because they think I'm a "nazi". At school when someone overheard me and one of my few friends who is into ww2 talk about a reenacting event of mine. The student or I'd like to say jackass looked at me and said,"Are youz a Nazie",and started to give me the heil hitler salute. I was so offended by that(and pissed off)that I grabed his arm and almost broke it,and told him how much offense I take to being called that. So for the next week this kid made jokes about ww2 and the holocost which really upset me. It got to a point were I was one step away from beating this kid within an inch of his life. I ended up getting him alone and again explained how much what he said offended and hurt me. So finally he left me alone. I still wonder how stupid people can be, especially since I was twice the size of that kid and could've hurt him easy, but I'm glad I didn't and just explained my reasons for being so offended. I know that won't work in every case, but I'm glad it did in that one.

There are people who aren't that pigheaded. My swim coach and a friend on the team can talk about world war two or other histoy topics for hours on end. If more people would be willing to listen and pull their head out of their @$$ it would be alot easier to explain my interest in the germany army or ww2 in general.

Another reason I was always interested in the german army is because right now who could think of Germany being able to conquer most of europe. What that country did just seems impossible, even though they did lose. Plus one more thing is that I heard people talk about how hard it was during the war with rationing and how the soldiers had it so bad. Which they did have it hard and I'm not taking anything away from them. But I always thought the germans had it harder. We didn't have our citys bombed and rationing was never that bad overhear. Plus most allied soldier, not counting the russians, had better supplies and air cover. Well the germans didn't in the latter part of the war. They in general fought withless then their allied counter part did and still fought acceptionally well.

Man do my hands hurt now, I don't usually type that much in a post, but I needed to say it.

 

Wow!
I didn't think there was so many of us with the same experiences! I too grew up with Sgt. Rock and G.I. Combat comic books. For some strange reason I always felt drawn toward the German side.
I then began to research and study WWII as I got older, I mainly focused on the German side, particularly the Panzerwaffe.
I don't know, maybe for the same reason why I like the klingons the best on Star Trek or the Empire and Darth Vader on Star Wars. I hope that doesn't sound silly, but what I mean is the German Army seemed more serious, or more "warrior-like" if you may.
Their uniforms looked better, their tanks looked better, they wore their medals in battle, they seemed to take fighting and warfare more seriously.
People and friends have looked at me funny as well, when finding out I research the German Army of World War II. The comments I have gotten range from silliness to just plain absurd and ignorant. Everything from....
..."Why? They fought us twice and lost!.....Those guys fought for Hitler.....That was 50 years ago, who cares?......We won, so what?"..... to even dumber comments...." war, that's just a bunch of guys trying to be macho.....the war started with two guys in a fist fight.....the war and other wars are terrible why would you want to study that?.....why study the losing side?...lots of people died that is depressing"...

Yeah, and these people call us weird!!
It looks like all of us have probably heard all the same comments, it's nice to see I am not alone...I am not the only freak out there...heeheehaahaahaaaa!!!

Cheers dudes!!!!
Jon Fitzgerald
Calgary,AB,Canada

 

I don't know. Most people I've met here don't really think it's that strange to study wars or warfare. Usually they seem to accept it as a valid hobby.