What do you think of the Siege of Tobruk

He also had a high regard for the New Zealand division which he considered one of the elite of the British army we wiped one of there battalions out to the last man at Minqar qaim they were still screaming about it 60 years later.

 

Too right mate, it is certianly wrong to say that the Australians were the only member of the ANZAC corp considering without the NZ's there would be no ANZAC name.

 

The Aussies were a tough bunch. I don't beleive it mattered how they got along with the Brits. They took terrible poundings, and just dug their heels in deeper. They had a no quit mentality. The German's found that out in many battles with them. That's a hard thing to overcome in an army. If moral is high and strong, the ememy is in for real trouble, and will be hard pressed to beat them as long as ammo, food, and water hold out.

 

I was reading one of my 'Australians at War' books yesterday it went on about the Kokoda Trail. And it focused on one specific unit, I don't remember the unit but the two main men were both a sergeant an a corporal in the Australian militia. Anyways it goes to say that these two men joined the unit before they were shipped to Papua and fought all the way through the battle, and at the end of it all the corporal came up to the sergeant and said, 'Sarge, can you finally show me how to use this?' Motioning to his rifle.

For all those wondering how he managed to go the whole battle without firing a shot, he had attached his bayonet at the first day of battle and an opportunity had never arisen for him to actually need to fire his rifle, since most of his combat was hand to hand, and the other time he couldn't see the enemy anyways.

 

Tomcat,

I really must question thsi story, it sounds like a Furphy!

I really doubt any man in Australia in the late 30s and early 40s that did not know at least the basics of a bolt action rifle, NOT like today!

They first handed me a Lee-Enfield in school cadets at 14 years of age, and I knew within seconds how it worked.

The 'Owen' was the same, but the 'Bren' took me a little longer.



John.

 

Well you might be right matey, but that is what it says.
It does come from a legit and well recognized group of books.

 

Tobruk holds something special for my town because a battlion 2/23rd Albury's own was recruited from around my area and has the T coulor patch for the 9th Division

I may be in correct but wasn't Tobruk the first place where Hitlers Blitzkrieg was stopped?

I also find sometimes the other units around Tobruk get a raw deal in Aussie history any thoughts?

 

No doubt that Tobruk was a fine show by the Aussies.

I have seen little writen here about the UK 25pders that provided most of the arty support through the whole battle. The same arty that smashed many attacks. Give credit were it is due.

HP

 

Well, well - looka here, I find it awfully nice of the Germans to lend some of their helmets to the Australians in order to beware them from sunstroke. And those Australians waving, saluting and saying thanks!
Or am I getting something wrong??

Sad story in regards to Fred Origlassi.

Regards
Kruska

 

Australians are very proud of there military history and never overlook any other units from any nation. The New Zealanders are always praised as high as the Aussies, as well as the British, Polish, South Africans or the Scottish. The only thing is with Australian History it is how history, so we focus more on our units involved just like any other nation does with there own.

Wow, don't think at any stage that we are biased towards the Australian army here it is just the main focus, if however you insist on being rude why don't we mention the RAF forces available, the defenses around Tobruk or perhaps the many merchant shipping that brought supplies to the wonderful 25pdr, all who played a vital role in the defense. Also had you actually red the thread you will find a few mentions of the 25pdr being the main defense for Tobruk.

 

Well at least he made it to Korea what they say you can take a man away from a war but you can't take the war from the man

 

I think he just wanted to see more on the other international units I don't thinnk he meant any offense tom

 

Hi, all Aussie,
There has been British, Indian, Polish and Czechoslovakian troops in Tobruk,not only Australian Division

 

For the Germans and Hitler, North Africa was nothing but a side-show and a diversion from their main theatre of the war, the Eastern front. The British were very interested in keeping the Italians and Germans away from Egypt and the middle east oil fields. Hitler sent the Afrika Korps there simply to rescue dumb Mussolini's inept and incompetent Italian forces. Rommel's Afrika korps were at first so successful that Hitler had dreams of him linking up with Manstein's Eastern armies in the middle east vie Egypt. But lack of fuel an resupply (failure to neutralize British airpower on Malta was the death call for Axis resupply from Italy) When the Germans and Italians in North Africa surrendered in 1943, aside from thousands of dead and wounded, half a million men on the Axis side surrendered, almost half of them German.

The Germans also lost many tanks, including 18 tiger 1 tanks, (http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm)
and hundreds of aircraft - that would have been much better employed on the Eastern front during that period. Hitler was never serious about German efforts in North Africa since the Eastern front simply devoured men and material and was the German's main effort. As a result, Hitler simply should have allowed Mussolini to flounder - with the benefit of hind-sight that we have, it would have been better not to go in at all than to go in with inadequate forces and supplies and very weak lines of communication the way the Germans did - all for nothing.

 

Wouldn't a collapse of Italian forces in N. Africa give the British free reign in the Mediterranean Sea? I would grant that invading Italy from N. Africa turned out to be an awful idea, but allowing the exposure of southern France would have been taking a major strategic risk (as was borne out by DRAGOON).

 

Tobruck was the period of WW2 where the Allies finally learnt how to handle DIVEBOMBING. Constant attacks by groups of 50 or more Stukas at a time forced the defending guns to come up with a way of beating the divebomber. This 'method' was passed on to other units in the Eighth Army, and thence to other theaters of the war. Proud to say it was the Australian garrison that stood up to the Stuka....

"During the period 11th April to 24th June, no less than 46 different Stuka attacks were mounted against the Tobruck defences. The number of aircraft in each varied considerably; three to six on some dates, as many as 40-50 on others, with a peak of 60 Ju87's on 29th of May and 2nd June 1941. A total of 959 divebomber sorties during which the defences claimed to have destroyed no less than 54 aircraft. The AA gunners were becoming seasoned at standing up to divebombing after such an ordeal, but more important, the divebomber was now being taken seriously by the Army and special training was given so that even fresh untried gunners stood a chance if they did not panic.

'There is a crucial moment in a divebombing attack on a Heavy gun site, when personnel must take cover or not at all. When the first dive bomber is above them at 4,000 feet, a ferocious burst of fire at this moment from the guns will make him release his bomb prematurely, and make his successors pause in their attack. Complete silence at this moment if the section goes to ground allows every Stuka to pick his mark and come down to 500 feet. Then and only then will guns and command posts be damaged and men killed.'

The strain of the constant air attacks left tempers very 'loose'.....as the following excerpt reveals, the Allies certainly did not have it all their own way.....

Lieutenant Colonel Allan Apsley, June 29th, 1941;

'I really must protest against the constant advertisement given to the RAF by the BBC. It is doing immense harm among the troops out here where they are in a position to know that the claims are not true, because it makes them wonder whether other claims are equally exaggerated.
Here, while I sit in the desert with an Me110 circling overhead, the wireless broadcast of 0915 hrs is telling us that the great feature of our recent operations here was that the RAF held complete mastery of the air by the simple procedure of preventing enemy aircraft from leaving the ground. This is completely untrue. In this regiment alone we had 30 casualties from air attack alone...'


(Exerpts from the book "IMPACT: The Divebomber Pilots Speak" by Peter C. Smith)

 

Von Poops picture reminds me of the traditional greeting given to Axis, particularly German, prisoners.

Spike Milligan records that his unit would give the salute with the words "Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein @sshole!", and follow it up with generous 'raspberries', something his fictional Hitler referred to as "Ein Fartung Noise"......

At the conclusion of the Western Desert campaign, Spike posed the question

"Had we ordinary layabouts beaten the formidable German Army?"


Many Axis prisoners would have asked the same....In Spike's comic world, Rommel writes to Hitler, explaining,

"Dear Fuehrer,
Beaten ve haf been by zer ordinary layabouts.
Signed....Formidable German Army"

 

Quote Tomcat{I have references of Australian infantrymen laying on the ground with c4 explosives covered by sand, and they would allow the tanks to roll over them and they would attach the c4 to the bottom, thus disabling the tank. This of course was a dangerous course of action for the men involved, but was effective at disabling a tank. End Quote}

I think you may have been thinking of something called a "Sticky Bomb" it had some sort of adhevisve on it, a soldier would run and place it on bottom or other place on tank then get the heck out of their.
If you want more info on this sticky bomb google it.

 

If you are referring to my quote here, then yes you are probably right. When I made that quote I was not aware of C4 not even being developed at the time, and thankyou but I do know what a sticky bomb is and perhaps you are right about this being the desired weapon they were using over any other explosive.

 

Aussies and Brits have allways had their differences whether Military or Civil however when their is work to be done they both roll up their sleeves put the BS behind them and then do the job. This amazed some Germans officers whose Intel had told them that the troops and Officers from both countries did not get along, and were openly arguing

It was not untill 1942 that Roosevelt found out that australia was it's own national enity, he actually thought or was lead to believe that OZ was still a fully fledged colony, and apprently got real peeved at PM Curtain for demanding Australian 6th and 7th divisions to not be sent to Burma, he thought Curtain was not being loyal to his colonial masters however once he found out the truth he held the Aussies Govt etc in a high regard for standing up for themselves