The importance of WW2 to todays generation

Been thinking about this for a while now.

Im 26 and teach in an Outer London Secondary School (High school).

I was teaching politics to my class of 17 yr olds yesterday and was talking about ideology, we got onto Communism and then Nationalism and we moved onto Fascism. These teenagers seemed to have little idea of what Fascism really meant, and its influences.

So I asked further about my pupils knowledge of WW2, yes, it is part of the curriculum in the Uk, yes, they learnt about it, but it was simply in one ear, out the other. I developed the idea of German Facism and we begun speaking about Italy, the kids had no idea Italy were 'fascist'. We spoke about the Holocaust, I asked how many people in total were killed in the Holocaust, they had no idea.

I could go on, but its disheartening. It is so sad to see WW2 apparently fading from the psyche of our youth.

There are vast swathes of primary and secondary information that keep WW2 alive, museums, website, documents, those who fought and lived through the war, but in this day and age this seems to hold no relevance to our youth.

So, questions questions...

1.How do we keep WW2 alive for future generations?
2.Is this generation of 'youth' now so out of touch with reality that WW2 will never be of relevance to them?

A tough subject in my opinion

 

In my humble opinion, turn the clock back 30 years and teach WW2 like it used to be taught. Tell them why it happened, what happened when and most importantly-who won and why.
Never mind mind the touchy-feely BS about not upsetting anyone-tell it like it bloody well was. Nearly 12 million died in the Holocaust, and yes 6 million of them were Jewish. That leaves nearly the same number again who weren't, but it's the former who are almost exclusively mentioned in connection with it. That's not fair.
Tell them Hitler & Stalin were the best of pals in 1939, and drop the BS about Russia winning single-handed. Yes, they destroyed the vast proportion of the Nazi war machine, but Britain & the US weren't sleeping either.
Ignore the ******* idiots who constantly whinge about Hiroshima and Dresden, and teach kids to forget about hindsight and see it through contemporary eyes. The primary school my 2 youngest go to encourage primary 3 (I think?) to build a WW2 project, and I think half the village has seen my old man's tin hat and BD blouse-but it helps things stick in the memory. Maybe more of the same wouldn't go amiss.
Anyway, that's my tuppence-worth (on theme or what?! )

 

If I may, in fact WW2 seems to have little relevance today. Hitler and Nazism are dead, The Soviet Union is gone, the British and French Empires have dissolved too, almost all central and western Europe are meshed into a democratic embrace, etc etc, so why bother with an old war, as relevant today as the Napoleonic Wars?

That old sentence "Those who forget history tend to repeat it" or words to that effect. We live in an unstable world, dictatorships are alive and prosper everywhere. There is a veneer of democracy, but we don't know when and where it will crack.

Who will be Putin's successor, another Lukashenka? Is the Balkan mess solved? Hardly. India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons. India's sensibility tradition (to avoid the word 'democracy') seems well entrenched, but Pakistan has a pronunciamento every few years, will the next one be a hothead? Another Amahdinejad, as if one was not enough? Africa needs no excuses to spontaneously ignite, big Nigeria and Congo are close to the boiling point. Mandela, Tutu, Sithole are very old already, once the national consciences are gone what will the future bring, more Mugabes?

So you see, we can't forget about the recent past, we need to look at it in order to extract lessons, for the present is so volatile!

Thank you very much for your concern, Submerge. You have a conscience, something we don't see every day.

 

I am 20 years old and I started to research WWII at age 14, of course nothing to intense at the time but just looking at the pictures of airplanes and reading about the Medals of Honor given out. I think a key is that youth follow passion, so if you show your students passion submerge I believe that you will impact one if not many of your pupils. My uncle was the passion I saw in the researching of WWII and I began to listen and learn. Make kids understand that if they don't learn from the past they won't be able to face the future whether carrers, family or in many circumstances, life itself.

 

Thanks for the post, submerge ; the issue is something we've touched upon on this forum once or twice before.

I really don't want to get into an easy 'why can't they be like we were?' monologue, but I'm reminded of the Veteran helper at a WWII museum I'm involved with. After showing a teenaged group around the Museum ( and he has passion ! He was a Guards Division 'tanker' in Normandy ... ) he sat down wearily and said to the rest of us : -

'They just don't seem to be interested in anything....'

Maybe we're being too hard on WWII ? I'm speaking from a UK perspective, but we read much in the Press of the younger generations of today feeling disengaged from the political process ( hence, low voting turnout, etc ). I can't say that I can blame them.

When our highest-ranking Politician espouses such 'historical truths' as the US standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the UK in 1940, what are we to make of it ? Poor education, or history being warped for political expediency ?

In short, I have no answer to your question.....

 

You could peak their interest with movies to watch such as "Enemy at the Gates", Stalingrad, All Quiet on the Western front, (old version), Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Sink the Bismark, ect. ect. plus tons of video games. Then if some are interested you can suggest picture books to look at and then go to regular books to read. Not everyone will be interested but you may reach a few.

I got interested in war history by looking at a picture book of WWI trenches and battles. I kept thinking "don't those dummies know you can get killed going over the top and into machine guns ? " Also I liked model airplanes growing up and reading how they were used in the war.

Just having them read a book on dates and places is too dull for 17 year olds.

Also interesting web sites with lots of pictures would peak their interest. The more gory the better.

 

And full of SS types too!

 

Popular culture is responsible for this. Kids dont know about history at all, not only ww2. They read those youth magazines and listen to Britney Spears. Oh, I forgot, and they also watch "The O.C."

5-6 years ago WW2 movies were popular(well sometimes popular culture works) ,then I was 18 and got involved with WW2 after watching "Saving Private Ryan". Thanks to Spielberg, Rangers being gunned down with Mg-42 was so realistic that then I bought the movie and watched the landing scene again and again.

So I beleive you should recommend them to watch movies like Saving Private Ryan as TA152 mentioned above. Then you might offer them some articles or books about WW2 to read. There are also some cool documentaries. Kids should watch such stuff at school.

And at last you can send them here ww2forums.com

 

Za, I liked your girl picture better. That new guy looks like a used car salesman !

Have the operation and go back to being a girl.

 

all right, all right! Even if your own avatar is nothing to write home about

[ 02. October 2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Za Rodinu ]

 

I remember listening too the radio last year they were talking about education here in England, one of the callers was a history teacher complaining that the E.U. was rewriting history and he had to teach their version of the events of WW2, in short a watered down version which is flawed.

From my point of view I got interested in WW2 because my dad was into the subject I remember my very first book on WW2 printed by Marks & Spencer (a food and cloths shop) from there I got more into the subject.

 

One problem seems to be more revisionists and apologists are cropping up on the Internet.

While there's many neo Nazi white supremacist webs, they're so pathetic you can largely ignore them, but when people like Irving and others maintaining that no Jews were gassed and Suvorov's theory in 'Ice Breaker' that Russia was going to attack West in late June '41, and Germany had to save Europe, and James Bacque's book ''Other Losses: An Investigation into the Mass Deaths of German Prisoners of War at the Hands of the French and Americans After World War II.'' saying that up to 2 million German P.O.W's were murdered by the Americans and French after the war, seem to be gaining believers in Europe and the U.S. and many people defend these theories.

Is it possible that as the decades roll by the revisionists might eventually have more of their view of the war believed by many gullible young people, or am I being too pessimistic?

 

I feel that , at least in Australia, the young are becoming more aware of the conflicts of the 20th Century and the sacrifices made on their behalf.
On ANZAC Day, 25th April, the turnout at memorial services in Australia & at Gallipoli are increasing, mostly a larger number of younger people each year. I believe the improved respect for our Vietnam Veterans in the past 10 years has opened a gate, in addition to the number of conflicts such as Iraq I & II, Afghanistan, East Timor, Somalia, Solomons Is in recent years, has reawakened the theme.
I do miss the swing away from schools teaching about war, each ANZAC Day & Remembrence Day we would get(In the 1960's) a broadcasted "Radio Play" of ANZAC Cove or Villiers Bretonneaux, never about the glory but concentrating upon the sacrifice.

The problems comes mostly in countries who are ashamed of their past, and believe that they must re-write or slectivly write about thier past. Does "The Forgotten Soldier" sell well in Germany, IMHO it shows what life on the Eastern Front was like. Or do sales of the Histories of the various Waffen SS Divs sell more??
It can also come from the "Image" being sold of war, in OZ, most kids would have heard of Simpson and his Donkey or 'Weary' Dunlop, few would know Monash, Elliott, Chauvel, Morshead, Derrick or Hughie Edwards. (John Simpson Kirkpatrick and his Donkey carried wounded soldiers down the Gullies of ANZAC Cove, 'Weary' Dunlop was a Doctor at Changi & the Burma Railway)

 

To Submerge,

You have a hard job, teaching anything to Pommy kids!

Maybe a theme is the amazing team work shown by all.

The British Commonwaelth Armies made up of Men and Women from every corner of the earth, of all Races and Religions, fighting together and giving their lives for the greater purpose.

Of Campaigns like Italy, where Allied troops from the UK, USA, India, Nepal, France & its Colonies, Canada, Sth Africa, New Zealand, Palestine, Greece, Brazil, Italy etc fought together.

In India/Burma, where the British and Indian (Now India, Pakistan & Bangladesh) lived and fought together.

Even the final campaigns in Europe saw Allied forces from the USA, UK, France, Canada, Poland, Belgium & Nederlands sweep to victory. (A Norwegian Bn as well??)

Overhead, the RAF was made up of men & Squadrons from the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Norway, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, Belgium, Nederlands, Denmark and in concert with the forces of the USAAF formed an unbeatable team.

If only we could work together like that without the need for war as the catalyst!

 

Ali

There was Norwegians on the ETO. But no Bn. there was the Norwegian Brigade in the Uk during the war. A recruiting pool for the Norwegians in the Linge and the Troop in No.10 Inter-Allied Commando. The Norwegian Brigade was more a Brigade Group towards the end of the war. But it was earmarked for the invasion/Liberation in Norway that never materialised.

Also there was a few subalterns serving in the Commonwealth forces. Most famous was Sverre 'Jimmy' Bratland in the KSLI in the 11th Armd division. Bratland ended up as chief of the Royal Norwegian Army after the war. He won an MC in Antwerp for knocking out an MG nest whilst beeing wounded.

As for the original thread. Things are moving downhill. There is selected reading in schools regarding the WW2. PC madness again. Volume of reading on the Holocaust, but hardly mentioning the war itself. It is time to forgive the germans etc. I have deeper knoweledge in the war, but no quarrel with the Germans. Damn I even guide german tourists through the mountains.

A marked contrast to what I learned at school. I remember that every 8th of May the community central became a Museum. Veterans talking from all fronts. I guess we were lucky here because there were so many that managed to get over to the UK and join up either in the Linge or Army. One of the men from the wee glen where I live ended up in 'Little Norway' Canada . He flew the Mossie and did anti Shipping along the coast.
Joachim Rønneberg the commander of Gunnerside has the cabin next to ours on the mountain.
I think that the ones that grew up with me all had a firm grip on what happened during the war, and what it costed people here and abroad.

 

Jaegar,
In the Ardenne there was a US Army unit , 99 Bn, I think this was Norwegian (Maybe American-Norwegians?)

 

There are people who are willing to believe anything negative about Americans, without considering the source or veracity of such accusations.

To many youngsters of today, the Vietnam War is ancient history because it happened before they were born, and the Korean War? What Korean War?

I suspect the youths I grew up with were not much different from those of today, with one exception. I was born three weeks before the attacks on Oahu and the Phillipines, so we were raised by the generation that fought the war, a fact which made the events of that conflict very real. That said, WWI, which ended only 23 before my birth, was ancient history to us.

Knowing how difficult it is to kindle interest in events that are not in the here-and-now, I admire teachers of history for trying.


JT

 

Excellent responses, and highly interesting!

Its like banging my head against a brick wall, im convinced that in the mind of the majority of London youth music and instant celebrity is key, and everything else comes second fiddle.

I suppose my parents just weened me on a diet of history, always doing the museusms and galleries, always talking to their parents about the war in front of me, which made me want to ask them more. I remember my grandad coming into my primary school when i was 10 and speaking about his life through wartime, and he was only an army tailor due to his flat feet. But we loved the stories!

You tell today's teenagers wartime stories there is no interest at all, if it doesnt concern people shooting eachother over drugs it just aint interesting, and im not too sure there will be any interest unless the government, and examining boards get their fingers out and make some changes!

 

And another in the same vein is Eisenhower & the German POWs; Facts against Falsehood by G. Bischof & S. Ambrose. Haven't read it myself, but I've yet to read a decent review of it.