This is BOUND to irk some, OH well

In my country were taught about the atrocities we too commited to the African americans during that black stain of my homelands history Known as slavery....The difference is Some brave men stood up and FOUGHT against it and paid the ultimate sacrifice to right this wrong and weve been trying to correct and learn from this since 1865...AND we have to continue to learn and honestly examine our nations collective MORALS and NOT forget what we did as well to the blacks in this country....My family didnt even get off the boat from northern ireland untill 1936... AND I WANT my son who is biracial to know...to learn and to make sure things like this dont happen in his generation and if they do have the MORAL courage to make a stand againsty this at any cost.... Dont get me started on the DISCPICABLE TREATMENT the native americans have recieved.... it makes me ashamed at times to be an American...BUT the difference is I KNOW ITS WRONG AND I HATE what was done to them and I do my best to raise my son right and to Educate young officer cadets I teach and instill a MORAL COMPASS a set of ETHICS and values that will make them think long and hard about JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS....

 

I wasn't worshipping Germans, Mortman ; just putting the record straight !

 

And you notice I dotn get mad about facts I do however get real testy when facts are outweighed by BULLSH&*T

 

Good call on the "Fourth point of contact" haven't heard that term since Quantico!

I agree with the good Major on this one. We do need to be reminded - that's not to say that there isn't a place for everything. Everyone gets sensitive about these things because I think a lot of people don't want to face it. I'm very proud of my German heritage, but facts are facts and we can't escape them. I'm somewhat surprised about the neo-nazi thing growing in Germany, espacially after so many years. But as you said, its a lot of young people... the young, the foolish, the uneducated (in life and text). Youthful angst thats refocused in some other wierd way.. join a soccer team and get a girlfriend for heavens sake.

 

I think the tension stems from the difficult in ensuring that none of us ever forgets, while also making certain that we do not relive the horrors of the Holocaust every day. Earlier in this thread, I noted that the evil of the Nazi government did not mean that all Germans were bad people during WWII but that it did mean that for one to embrace the German position or perspective during the war was to embrace the morally bankrupt position or perspective. Nazi Germany, as an institution, was the greatest (in magnitude) organized crime ring of the modern era.

In contrast, however, the German people were . . . . people. They were good and they were bad and just about all of them (other than Nazis) probably felt the same way the Allies felt during the War. They wanted to live and they wanted their loved ones to live. Everything else was probably secondary. These are the people who gave birth to the parents of today's younger generation. If that younger generation grew up loving their parents and grandparents, it is not a surprise that they are resentful if they feel that their grandparents and parents -- people they love -- are painted as monsters merely because of their birthplace.

The sins of the fathers are not the sins of the sons, and we need to remember that whenever we pay tribute to the past. When I visit a war memorial, I do not feel hatred for Germany or Japan today. Rather, I feel a sense of awe with respect to the American and Allied troops who brought the light back to a darkened Europe.

Similarly, I do not focus on the crimes that Allied soldiers might have committed as they completed their liberation of Europe. Just as there were good Germans, there were bad Americans (and English and Australian, etc.). Nevertheless, just because there were some bad Allied soldiers, it does not diminish the fact that the Allied cause was the just cause.

 

Well the funny thing out of this that the girl and i were shocked at the amount of Black homeless that was around the precints of the Capitol Building, we estimated that there were at least 300 to 400 sleepin in the gardens and surrounds and a further 100 or so on the way back to our hostel, well i'll tell you what, take your son and show him the real world, get him and travel around the poorer neighbourhoods of any major city in America and look at the amount of African Americans living in the slums and ghettos that i saw it ECCONOMIC SLAVERY. So before you supplant your morals over the Youth of Germany and their having to carry the Guilt of prior generation in perptuity, you are just as guilty of genocide.

So lets do this, how about in the US that every major city and small town in America we errect monuments to the slaves and native Americans and that we teach the young Americans of Anglo-Saxon (Whites) that they are just as guilty as what their forefathers are and are made to feel guilty every day of their lives, they have the burden of carrying the sins and must be remined every day. Then see how many over time begin to resent the African and Native Americans, you'll have an explosion of right wing groups.

Also a history lesson, the largest known organised group of Neo-Nazis actually resides in Moscow, it is estimated that there are over 50,000 of them, go figure.

 

Shuh, ever been to Louisiana? It's positively third world in places. Coming from someone who had been stationed in PR, I can tell you, there are neighborhoods in Baton Rouge & New Orleans that rival San Juans slums.

Shoot, I may be from the south, but my ancestors weren't. I've got my Great great great Grandads discharge from the Union army, so all these people wanting payback can kiss my butt.

 

Shoot, I may be from the south, but my ancestors weren't. I've got my Great great great Grandads discharge from the Union army, so all these people wanting payback can kiss my butt.[/quote]

What started all this crap was that a certain shiela who seems that he can't hack it here openly labelled anyone who wanted to fight on the German side in WW2 as NAZI's, that is offensive to me and to anyone who is on the forum. Oh by the way i have heard of a book called "They were right" in it, it suggests that the southern state did have a constitutional right to break away and form the Confederate States of America.

v.R

 

That and youth's natural contrariness, job getting difficulties, the problems with the absorption of East Germany etc., helps to explain the girl's attitude.

 

Hmm didnt the nazis play on those exact same sentiments in the 20's and thrities to bring Old adlof to power, WEAK EXCUSE FOR MASS MURDER AND GENOCIDE... gee im pissed off gas prices are high maybe we should go out and Kill all the friggin mormons.. they drive too much JEEZ

 

It seems like Mortman does have some sort of anger towards Germany, I do have to agree with v.R. about how ignorant it is to label all Germans as evi,l murderous anti-christs. That would be like if I was an Iraqi and said that all of America were a bunch of Power-Hungry World Wide jackass Police force, If I had said that and meant that do you know how many people would Label me as an A.H.? Even if Mortman was trying to make a point his Barrier of Angry Posts and excessive capital letters, threats and other rude things block it out.


This topic is no longer useful, I think it deserves a close.

 

Well i am over him (Mortarman) he is in the cooler for the mo'.

Can this thread be locked please.

v.R

 

So you feel free to throw in extraneous insults.

Well I'm on the forum and don't consider it an insult so you are wrong. Furthermore the conclusion is at least supportable by some logic. IE if you wanted to fight on the German side you are wanting to at least support the Nazi's.

 

That is actually a good point. Back then that may have not been so true. But nowadys with all the information that is out there for some that may be true. And BTW I for one do not lump all Germans in the "Nazi" catagory. But in the end the Third Reich ,of which the German Military was a very large part, was an evil, corrupt,murderous,warmongering regime lead by a madman.

 

Excellent post. I am not German but I am a strong advocate against stereotyping. Nothing wrong with remebering what happened as part of history but to hold it against the current generation is wrong and will produce some very strong consequences.

I have brought this up against those who attack all Germans, or those who recognize some thing good in the German people/nation during that period. There are those who express strongly advocation of willfully killing the 'bastard' teens of the 12th SS, or branding all Waffen SS members as criminals, and the German people as all Nazis.

They are just as bad as the neo-nazis and I have no problems labeling them as racist and ignorant. I just choose not to counter each time for fear of detracting the quality of this forum. If someone chooses to follow their father's lead in hating and memorializing the killing of POWs from the 12th SS, or self proclaimed German worshippers pushing their beliefs of the righteousness of German National Socialism.......well not much that I can do other than ignore such filth (my opinion). I Just choose to post quality material in the hopes of coming close to Martin, JC, Adam, Kai and so many more other Rogues.

Regards,
Ike

 

I have a rather conflicted outlook when it comes to persons of the German persuasion. I have and do know too many to even count, and only a few of them get all worked up by any Nazi affiliation/accusation. And usually they are the youth, rather than those of middle age or more.

Here in the north of the USA, from the Mississippi river to the Pacific you can’t swing a cat in a crowded room without hitting somebody of northern European ancestry. Norwegian, Swede, Finn, German, or Dane as the most numerous. Some might secretly wish the Nazis had "won" and some are just happy as hell they didn't. Only the youth who don't or can't succeed on their own try to find somebody to blame for their own failings. Much like the appeal of the Nazis: "It wasn't your fault (you honorable Germans), somebody else (the other, politic, or race) made the problem you now have to live with".

Outside of Weimar, the famous German city known for centuries for its cultural life was the KZ Buchenwald. It wasn’t a "killing center" precisely, but working people to death and subjecting them to other inhumanities was the rule rather than the exception after late 1943.

I bring this up because my best friend’s Mom from High School worked there as a clerk-typist for the SS from 1942 on. If you ever think you will meet a nicer, more pleasant human being than Gertrude, you are a bigoted fool. She had married at 17 (in 1938), and her husband was MIA or KIA on the Russian Front when she was 20, and childless. By this time, her mother had died, and her father couldn’t work since he was a WW1 disabled vet (one leg, one eye).

Her little brother, who ended up in the HJ the year after she started working at Buchenwald, didn’t add anything to the household funds. He never returned home. Gertrude has no idea what happened to either her husband, or her little brother.

Her "widows" pension never appeared since her husband’s body was never found, and they (the Heer) wasn’t sure he was dead, captured, or had deserted. Consequently no money from that quarter, and her Dad’s pension paid only the rent, and little else. Young Gertrude was the only "income producer" for what was left of her family, and while she was pretty well aware of what was going on at Buchenwald, she needed the income producing job more than anything else.

She picked up Typhus in late ’44, she was still living at home and wasn’t even recuperated by the time the allies over-ran the camp. The allies "traced her down", and then treated her for the Typhus and what had become a jaundice.

Gertrude wasn’t a "Nazi" by any stretch of the mind, she was a young woman doing what she could to keep her family alive inside of a Nazi regime. No amount of "moral outrage" on her part would have altered that in the least. She did the best she could under the circumstances. I defy anyone to justify doing otherwise at the time and in the place.

When my own Mom died in late 1972 of cancer, she and my step-Mom had been great friends for years playing bridge. Eleanor and her husband, Mom and Dad played in both state and regional tournaments, and just played for fun every week-end. The stories coming from Eleanor were "shy" to start with, but with time became more detailed after a fashion.

She was born either the year before or the year that Hitler came to power, 1932-1933. She was the daughter of a dairy farmer in the Holstein district, right near the Bergen/Belsen KZ. Of course by the time the war ended she was only about 12 or 13.

She remembered one thing about the KZ camp near her Dad’s dairy, it stunk when the wind shifted wrong. Her Dad (who had fought on the Russian front in WW1), hated the Russians and considered them "unwashed pigs". He told her something to the effect of (paraphrasing); "don’t be too surprised by the stench coming from there, they are Slavs and never learned how to wash themselves or their clothes.

When it was over-run by the Brits, her Dad was forced to help bury the dead but because of her youth she was spared that horror"honor". Within a year her father killed himself by hanging, after her mother had disappeared, and by 1948 she was working in Hamburg as a waitress.

Somehow she and her first husband met during the "Berlin Airlift" time, and when he was transferred back to the states, eventually he and she ended up in Great Falls, Montana in the sixties. That was the common denominator between her husband and my Dad, since both worked in and flew for Transport Command. (although at different times).

Did I or do I "hate" the SS clerk typist, of course not. I knew that long before I asked her to baby-sit my kids so my wife and I could have a "night out".

Did or do I "hate" my step-mother because she spent her pre-adolescent years in Hitler’s Germany? Oh please.

I can form some immediate opinions on other subjects (which I generally regret), but overlaying Nazi on German as a sterotype isn’t one of my flaws. A person has to prove themselves to be neo-Nazi to gain my distain. Not what their parents, or grand-parents, or other relatives did. Nor which nation they are from.

 

What started all this crap was that a certain shiela who seems that he can't hack it here openly labelled anyone who wanted to fight on the German side in WW2 as NAZI's, that is offensive to me and to anyone who is on the forum. Oh by the way i have heard of a book called "They were right" in it, it suggests that the southern state did have a constitutional right to break away and form the Confederate States of America.

v.R[/quote]
Pray tell who is this certain shiela? who cant hack it and any man who as i did had a uncle fight at cassino would want to fight on the german side it is WRONG AND WHY WOULD IT OFFEND DID NOT OFFEND ME.as a citizen of the BRITAIN we expect our army and other forces to defend us from all enemies and during ww2 that was the bloody germans and as has been said elsewhere you wanna take it to a thread on the free forum im quite happy to do so