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Hitler's Madness

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Ether, Feb 10, 2002.

  1. Ether

    Ether Member

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    I've fairly recently read a study that says Hitler most likely had Sifilous (sp?). This STD in its later stages causes the victims to go increasingly mad. It also leaves some sort of evidence on their skeletons so they can later be identified as having it.

    Rasputin, the mad monk, is known to have had the disease as well. Not suprising at all considering his promiscuous lifestyle. Henry VIII is also known to have had sifilous. That is why he couldn't father children, his wives would contract the disease from him so after their first child the subsequent children were all malformed. Whether or not the rumours of Hitler's rather... perverted sexual lifestyle are true may or may not be more evidence of him having the disease.

    Kind of odd that some very influential people in history, and some of the most insane, are all believed to have sifilous.

    Anyone else heard about this, know if it has been proven to be true that Hitler had it or not?
     
  2. Andreas Seidel

    Andreas Seidel Member

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    It's not as simple as that. First of all, the inside machinations of the Nazi Party and the state run by it make investigations into the matter practically impossible. The only thing we know for sure is that Hitler's doctor pumped him full of drugs as the war went on.

    Syphilis is a disease spread only via sexual contact, it was very common before things such as condoms were invented. So it's not unusual for a lustful king or anybody to have it.

    Since we will never find Hitler's skeleton, although statistically speaking a few hundred molecules of it could be drifting in every litre of air we breathe, this will never be proved.
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Whether Hitler´s condition went poor because of the stress or another illness is hard to diagnose. As well he probably took all kinds of drugs to sedate him by his doctor´s orders. The tremble of his hand could be Parkinson disease but as well aftermath for the 20th July bombing I think. But probably it was not syphilis though it cannot be excluded. There was no cure so what you got from the WW1 you´d still have it later on in your life and it could make the nervous system fail.By the way that´s how Lenin died.

    Syphilis:
    Himmler, and the British Intelligence Service, raised the question that Hitler had neuro-syphilis, the equivalent, medically, and socially, of saying, today, a politician had Acquired Immune Deficiency, AIDS. There is, however, no credible evidence Hitler had syphilis. Although neuro-syphilis was a pleomorphic with many and varied symptoms, it rarely, if ever, caused Parkinson symptoms. Hi tler had a negative Wasserman test, and although a negative Wasserman reaction does not exclude neuro-syphilis, it reduces its likelihood. Hitler, on several occasions, had eye examinations by experienced ophthalmologists none of whom found evidence of the eye-abnormalities associated with neuro-syphilis.

    http://www.parkinson.org/texthtms/thitlerspd2.htm
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Hitler's half-Jewish personal physician, Dr. Theodor Morell, said to-day that during the last days before the fall of Berlin Hitler feared that he would be drugged and carried away forcibly from the capital. He does not believe that Hitler committed suicide because Hitler was not that type.
    Dr. Morell, who is 59, examined Hitler daily for nine years. He collapsed in a coma at Hitler's feet in the Chancellery shelter when Hitler yelled at him:

    "You think I am crazy. You will try to give me morphine. Get out of here; you are sacked. Get that medical uniform off. Go home and act as if you had never had anything to do with me." Dr. Morell flew from Berlin on April 22. He denied that Hitler chewed carpets, but said that he flew into rages; particularly as the war went on. Still more terrifying were Hitler's angry silences. "Hitler would go as white as a sheet and tightly clench his jaws, while his eyes would dilate," said the doctor. "Everyone in his entourage would get panicky because these fits were always followed by an order to dismiss or to execute somebody." But Hitler once complained: "My orders are never fulfilled."

    Dr. Morell attended him after the attempt on his life. he found Hitler sitting with singed hair, torn uniform, and blood on his face, banging his knees with both hands. "Just think of it, doctor," he exclaimed, "nothing can happen to me." His eardrums were ruptured and gave trouble later. Hitler seemed to have a split personality, one half iron will, determination, forcefulness and cruelty, the other uncertainty, fits of depression, and shyness, particularly with women

    Dr. Morell's relations with Hitler had become strained after Morell attended the funeral of his brother, who was not a Nazi party member. After that, when he reminded Hitler of a promise to have an X-ray examination, Hitler shouted: "Do you think I am a silly young fool?" Hitler was obsessed with the fear of cancer and had severe digestive troubles, said Morell.

    http://www.guardiancentury.co.uk/1940-1949/Story/0,6051,127827,00.html

    ----------------

    From 1942, the Nazi leader Adolf Hitler received daily injections of methamphetamine from his personal physician, Dr Theodor Morell. Hitler's ailments have been attributed to everything from tertiary syphilis to Parkinson's disease. But many of The Führer's clinical signs and symptoms may have been caused by his exotic drug regimen.

    http://amphetamines.com/adolf-hitler.html

    --------------

    The Reich Commissioner was genuinely worried about the effect of the frequent cocktails of up to 28 different drugs being pumped into his Führer. He had a point. Morell was to treat Hitler for nine years with some bizarre concoctions including bull’s testicles, materials derived from animal intestines and high-dosage amphetamines....

    http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/139_nazidocs.shtml

    :eek:
     
  5. jrhess3

    jrhess3 recruit

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    There is a book in the Ballantine Series called of course, Hitler by Alan Wykes. This is the only book that I've read that claims not only did Hitler have Syphilis, but names the prostitute who he caught it from (Hannah). This occurred during his "vagabond years" in Vienna. Most other biographers don't make such a certain claim as there is no evidence, only conjecture. Assuming the disease things begin to make sense, such as why did he fail his physical for the Austrian army in 1913.
    This is a question, however, that will never be answered satisfactorily.
     
  6. DWaters

    DWaters Member

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    I never saw it as him having a split or dual personality. I just thought it was the workings of the syphilis disease, Parkinson's and amphetamines that were pumped into him daily aside from and all the other crap his doctor was "treating" him with. From what I've heard, he had bowel issues and was very self conscious of gas, which was one of the reasons for his vegetarian diet and that would explain the shyness. Is that something that anyone else has heard?
     
  7. Firefoxy

    Firefoxy Dishonorably Discharged

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    Hi Ether, I have a Hitler third reich book and that confrims you're story about Hitler having sifilous.
    About Hitler having Kids,this is what i know but i'm not saying i'm right and you're wrong in anyway.
    Hitler never wanted to have kids in the first place,but he did adore kids.:)
     
  8. drico618

    drico618 recruit

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    At this point, only bone samples would provide enough evidence of syphillis although the ten page rant identifying Syphillis as the bane of society and a major threat against humanity give some good hints at Hitler's possible condition.
     
  9. Firefoxy

    Firefoxy Dishonorably Discharged

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    Yes true, possibelity you're theory can still work.
    Russians scientist believe they have a bit of Hitler's skull in there presents,so there's a chance that we will find out for sure.
    What you just mention about he's condition,is making me think he did have syphillis.

    Warm cheers
     
  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Well, there were loads of other loonies at the time, too, than just Hitler. Göbbels, Röhm, Hess just to name a few. The again if you see how hitler managed to win some of his political gamblings in the 1930´s he was not that crazy at least by then.

    Military wise it seems Hitler was still not so convinced he was unbeatable in spring-summer 1940 as he stopped the tanks rolling towards Dunkirk because he feared the flank attacks would destroy his fine plan. During Barbarossa he did not fear anymore to do whatever tricks he liked to do.
     
  11. Firefoxy

    Firefoxy Dishonorably Discharged

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    Yes , I heard all of that aswell. I'm guessing you watch the History channel.;)
     
  12. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    First of all, Hitler was a "sunshine" vegetarian at best, and only after the death of his niece "Geli" Raubal in 1931, his gastronomic problems were caused by his diet; not the other way 'round, i.e. required by his doctor for his gastronomic distress. His excessive vegetable intake caused him nearly intolerable gas and was accompanied by intense pain. Since methane gas (the most common gas in flatulence) is odorless, it was most likely Hitler’s love of eggs which made it smell (sulfur). He ate eggs at many a meal, boiled mostly, and this along with the vegetarian diet caused the gas and likely the odor.

    It does seem to myself that the supposition of syphilis infection downplays the gigantic number of drugs which Dr. Theo Morrel (I’ve seen that spelled as Morrel, Morell, and Morrell) was pumping into Hitler (the number was well over thirty), some twice a day, some daily, some weekly, some bi-weekly. Ranging from the amphetamines mentioned, to barbiturates, cocaine, and opiates and even the then accepted drug for Parkinson’s (Hamburg 380?), but Morrel was such a questionable physician I wonder if he wasn’t mis-diagnosing Hitler’s tremors and partial left side paralysis as Parkinson’s when they might just as easily been caused by Hitler’s own self-medications with drugs before Morrel was in the picture.

    Hitler started self-medicating in the late twenties, early thirties with cocaine throat sprays, to ease his throat pain after a polyp was surgically removed from his vocal chords, and barbiturates for sleep. Morrel’s additional "wonder drugs" and vitamin concoctions may have exacerbated Hitler’s already overloaded system. Those tremors and nervous twitches are just as easily seen as side-effects of drug abuses. Of course trying to make excuses for Hitler and his personality as the result of an "illness" is absurd. And let's not skip over the fact that the Nazi leader was injected with about 35 different drugs and drug combos from the moment he met Dr. Theo Morell in the mid to late thirties. And while many considered him a quack, Hitler would have none of it and followed his recommendations as much as could be expected keeping his hypochondria in mind. Between 1936 when he met Morrel, and his death by suicide in 1945, Hitler was administered by pill, liquid elixir, and injection form between thirty and thirty five different drugs and concoctions of Dr. Morell alone, not counting those from his more "orthodox" physicians like Dr. Brandt.

    And don’t forget that penicillin was far from a secret drug, Dr. Flemming had published his findings back in the twenties but it was so expensive to produce it wasn’t until WW2 and American "deep vat" production that it became both more pure, and less expensive (pennies per dose). It has been widely assumed that Dr. Morrell used German penicillin, or possibly penicillin made in Czechoslovakia for treating some high-ranking Nazis. However, Dr. Morrell would have known that this form of penicillin was both weak and impure, so it is unlikely that he would have used it on Hitler. It is possible the Germans are likely to have had access to the pure penicillin that was being used by the Allies. The Allies were supplying pure penicillin in freeze-dried form to neutral countries friendly with Nazi Germany like Franco's Spain, and Sweden.

    The other drugs which Hitler took or was given; included (according to Morrel's own records), Septoiod, Yatren pills (Iodoxyquinoline-sulphonic acid, + 5% opium), Dolantin (German version of Demerol), Tonophosphan (still used in veterinary applications as an analgesic), Cardiazol, Vitamultin-Calcium, Pervitine (methamphetamine), and Strophantus These are not counting Dr. Morell's own patented "Little Gold Pills" (for nervous stomach) which were wrapped in gold foil and contained strychnine and codeine which Hitler ate like breath mints. What about the injections of emulsified bulls testicles combined with liquid Multiflor and cocaine? Hitler was forced to stop wearing "lederhosen" (leather shorts) and short sleeved shirts, even when relaxing in the mountains because of the scars on his legs and arms from the multiple injections and infections over the years from Morrel.

    He also had leeches applied to his face regularly to combat his migraine headaches, which provoked eye muscle twitching, and with the cocaine eyedrops. Morrel, knowing of Hitler's fears of dying a slow death by cancer (like his mother) his own and Morrel's "shotgun" approach to his treatments are not a surprise. One very common misconception is that Dolophine, one of the very first trade names given to the synthetic morphine drug, was derived from "Adolf", in honor of the dictator himself by the Nazis, and that in Germany it was called "Adolophine."

    The fact of the matter seems to be this name was not given the drug until after the war, and by the Eli-Lilly pharmaceutical company in America, which was given control of the drug. If there was any honoring of Hitler going on, it was by the Americans who invented this urban legend. Dolophine most likely derives from the French words "dolor" (pain), and "fin" (end).

    Is it any wonder that Der Führer was probably more than a "bubble off center" by the last years of his life?
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    What surprises me is how he managed to retain any sanity with all that junk he was taking!
     
  14. DWaters

    DWaters Member

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    And....

    Hitler was a vegetarian. I know there are many types of vegetarians, but that doesn't negate the fact that he was a vegetarian. I may be wrong on the motive, but not on the fact that he was a vegetarian at some point in his life.


    How do you know that his gastric issues weren't related to something else or that vegetables were just a small part of his gastric troubles? I've read that it was due to a nervous condition. Perhaps he was allergic to the amphetamines, or it was the daunting stress of trying to be a leader, or that he was trying to hide something. Yes, I believe that there may have been some vegetables that played a part in his gastric issues, but I can hardly believe that that's the only thing that caused his gastric distress and I don't believe that's the only reason his doctor was treating him the way he did.


    It sounds to me that he had the symptoms of IBS. I know that IBS can be triggered by numerous things, stress, food, anxiety. But you're the doctor, right? I certainly am not a doctor and I'll take all new information with a grain of salt as I do most things, until I hear that they are confirmed. Yes, that means your matter-of-fact post. Sources would be nice.

    It is confirmed that he had bowel and flatulence issues. It is confirmed that he tried to be a vegetarian. I don't know if it's confirmed that his flatulence made him shy around women, but I never said that was a fact. I said it would explain his shyness. It could very well explain something else.

    I don't wonder if he was misdiagnosing. From the medications and other substances he was ingesting it appears, to me, that Hitler was being used as a guinea pig. The diaries that the doctor kept reveal a sort of trail-by-error way of medicating. No rhyme or reason to some of his medication choices and some of the drugs counteracted the other substances. That doesn't make sense if you're trying to help someone. It makes sense if you're trying to see how things behave in a person. But my thoughts are all only speculation.

    No, it isn't. That was the gist of my post, or so I thought.
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    From http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-today/27318-hitlers-favourite-meal-yanked-belgian-cooking-show.html

    Also:
    http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/hitler.html

    Thank you Clint ;)
     
  16. DWaters

    DWaters Member

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    So from the link you provided, there is confirmation that doctors tried to get him to lead a vegetarian lifestyle. There's no mention he did or didn't lead that lifestyle only that he enjoyed meat and ate meat. There's no mention that vegetables were the thing that caused his flatulence. Whether he stuck to the vegetarian diet for a day or 5 years, he was still labeled a vegetarian by someone, whether for propaganda purposes or not, and he tried or pretended to be one (to make others believe that he was), at some point. Is that correct or incorrect?
    Perhaps Goebbels was doing the opposite of what he said he was doing above, since he is a known liar.

    The above quote doesn't mean that he did not (at some point in his life) try vegetarianism either. There are many people who expect one thing from others and something different from themselves.

    So there is evidence that someone at one time said he was a vegetarian. We don't know absolutely for certain that he didn't try vegetarianism, even if for a day, right? I've read that vegetarianism was something that was prescribed to help his flatulence, is that wrong too?

    Just some thoughts

    Some more thoughts.

    They're just words.

    By the way, I'm not a vegetarian.
     
  17. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I think it was the vegetables ( beans etc ) that caused the flatulence to be honest....
     
  18. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    There are several descritions of Hitler's menus in the memoirs of those who were closer to him.

    Anyway, What If the windows of the shed where he was holding that July 20, 1944 meeting were shut, wouldn't the increased concentration of methane from the Phührer's Pharts have magnified the effect of the bomb? :D
     

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