Spain awarded shipwreck treasure

BBC NEWS | Americas | Spain awarded shipwreck treasure

A deep sea treasure-hunting company has been ordered by a US judge to hand over half a million gold and silver coins to the government of Spain.

The company, Odyssey Marine Exploration, raised the haul from a shipwreck in the Atlantic, suspected to be that of a Spanish naval vessel.

The Spanish government argued that the treasure formed part of the country's national heritage.

The haul of coins - thought to be worth some $500m (£308m) - came to light in 2007, when Odyssey announced the recovery of artefacts from a wreck in the Atlantic.

It kept the location of the wreck secret, in what it said was an attempt to deter looters.

The haul was brought ashore in Gibraltar and quickly flown to Miami - enraging the Spanish government, our correspondent says, which says the wreck is that of the Mercedes, a naval frigate destroyed by the British in 1804.

Spain's Culture Minister Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde expressed joy at the decision.

"It's a very positive decision for the Spanish government and for all the Spanish citizens because it guarantees that this ship and the remains of this ship will come back to Spain, which was originally the owner of this ship," he told the BBC.

"I am pretty sure that Spaniards will have the opportunity to travel back in time and to have a chance to see this treasure."

 

I disagree with the whole treasure hunting thing...but really...does Spain need a half million coins to "travel back in time" or do they just want it all for the value? Make them give back some of the coins, a sampling of each...but good job, Odyssey...you earned it.

 

Finders keepers! They're just ticked because they didn't find it first!

 

Spain sending military planes to retrieve treasure from shipwreck | Mail Online

Despite finding the treasure and spending more than $2million to recover it, a federal judge on ordered a deep sea salvage company to turn over $500 million worth of Spanish coins it recovered from a shipwreck to the Spanish government within a week.
The Civil Guard said agents would leave within hours to take possession of the booty, worth an estimated $504 million, and two Spanish Hercules transport planes will bring it back.

 

I at least think the hunters who discovered and did all the work should get some reimbursement, or at least a finder fee. Out of 500 million dollars, Spain cannot spare 5-10 million as a thank you?

 

They should be elligable for a salvage fee but on the otherhand sunken warships in international water remain the property of the owning nation. In some cases the sinking power may have some rights to it as well.

 

They didn´t discover any thing the position of the "La Mercedes" frigate was known. The Odissey have destroyed the flotsam with the salvage methods of straction they used. Probably we will never know why "La Mercedes" exploted and sunk with all the crew, and passangers after the first shots of the Royal Navy (Spain and GB were in peace at that moment).
The frigate was in a cargo sail ... so it was possible to find something more than silver an guns.
Such as the relics of the properties of Don Diego de Alvear, he and one of his sons (who spoke english) were in the british ships, with the British commander. He saw his wife and the other six children sank with the ship, along with all their possessions ...
The "Archivos de Indias" (Something like the colonial archives) recognice more than 130 surnames linked to the goods sunk in the frigate.

 

It is my intent to sue the Spanish government for half the gold and silver in its vaults on behalf of the Inca and Aztec desendents for the 'cultural and national heritage' it represents to these noble peoples. Of course I should charge a 10% fee on all recovered value.

 

I guess Spain does not recognize the rule of : "Finder's Keeper's"

 

International law is pretty clear on warship wrecks, if it were a merchantman things would be more murky. Odissey was most likely well aware of it when they decided to start salvage and if they failed to make an agreement with the Spannish authorities before starting salvage operations it was pretty stupid of them. They should consider themselves lucky on not being brought to trial as "grave robbers". Look ath the salvage of bullion from HMS Edimburgh for the right way of going about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Edinburgh_(16)

 

Load of crap. If Spain was so interested in the cultural and historical significance of this wreck and knew where it was located...well I guess they should have salvaged it. What a bunch of garbage.

 

So....Spain KNEW the location of the wreck for the past 211 years (yes...two HUNDRED and eleven years), yet did nothing to retrieve the cargo. A salvage company comes in and retrieves it, and all of a sudden its now theirs? To me, that just screams "playground bully who wants the red kickball just because he played with it last week". Seriously. Grow up, work a deal with the salvage company. Its not about the cultural heritage, its about a massive boost to your treasury. How much y'all want to bet that a few choice pieces end up in museums, maybe in a couple of wealthy collectors' hands, and the rest gets melted down and re-smelted?

 

Cultural heritage? The Spanish worked slaves to death in the mines to get the treasure, and they were going to give a substantial share of it to Napoleon; that's why the British intercepted the fleet:

Action of 5 October 1804 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clearly this is all about Spain's national honor................

 

Of course the "cultural heritage" is c**p, but they still have the law on their side, no way salvage from a warship wreck is going to be recognized under international law unless it's authorized by the country the warship belongs to (and I use the present tense on purpose as a warship wreck in international waters remains the property of the state).

 

Do you relay on Wikipedia? In fact I read the tresour was to keep Spain OUT OF WAR ... I prefer this other one Action of 9 August 1780 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As La Mercedes came from Montevideo I guess you failed for two or three thousand miles ... XIX century ... Sitting Bull ... Custer ... .

What I really don't understand is how is possible that in a History Forum almost all of you consider the matter as nineteenth century treasure hunters ... and not of the best of them ... ... Graverobber ... I like this word.

Does anyone think that Odissey has took notes about the disposition of the coins found? Or they worried about the possible remains of the ship? What if there was a bell made ​​in Bilbao? Or a mate cup from Uruguay?

A humble example of what I say. If it´s impossible in deep waters ... leave then till the state of the science allow to do something like Arqueology in the shipwreck.

[video=youtube;V6mH_HNrJ0Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6mH_HNrJ0Y&feature=related[/video]

 

[video=youtube;ObWHL5GXs58]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObWHL5GXs58[/video]

 

researching and diving on shipwrecks has been a passionate hobby of mine for 38 years. In that time I've seen allot of shipwrecks from 18th century wooden warships to a post
WWII era oil tanker, One thing I've noticed is that money has a way of making a wreck historically significant, Most governments especially now have very little money to spend on proper underwater archeology , so it is left to the private indivudals and the hated treasure hunter to put his and neck and that of his investors on the line searching the ocean and combing government archeives for that tidbit of information that may put them on a wreck. For instiance what would we know about the Atocha if it wheren't for the late Mel Fisher ? He spent more than a decade looking for the wreck and soon as he found the treasure the government tried to take it from him. I must wonder now that the Spanish government won the court case and got the coins back from odessey will they take the opportunity and spend some of the money to do a proper survey of the wreck recover and preserve some of the artifacts and display them for everyone to see ? because take it from someone who knows there is nothing to compare with actually touching history...

 

If I were Odyssey I'd throw the stuff back into the sea...go get it you ticks. Spain sucks on this aspect.

 

It's all a matter of money, Spain had better lawyers on this matter . It's not fair for the finder in my opinion. At least I hope Spain will feed some of its 23% unemployed with it...

 

It's not a matter of good lawyers, the law is too clear on this for lawyers to matter, the right thing to do is to get agreement with the legal owner before starting search and salvage operations, like for HMS Edimburgh, not to hope it won't get to court or for a judge tp ignore all precedents (and you will still likely to loose in an international court).
As a personal note we found a Roman wreck full of anphors while diving and the ownership was never in doubt, "finders keepers" simply does not apply here, those we did recover are now in a local museum, IIRC there was a dive on the wreck by a British university team some years ago, 30 years after the original find so something is still there though grave robbbers will have gotten most of what we left.