Common Sense may Sink Obamacare

Peggy Noonan: Common Sense May Sink ObamaCare - WSJ.com

Just Part of Freedom's erosion in Amerika

 

hummm... I'm gathering my patience to give a proper response regarding Obama care and what it actually means and who is against it. Today is not the day however as I'm feeling lazy and I have to head for the gym. Rest assured tough, I'll give you a more than complete answer.




Cheers...

 

Have a great work out.

 

Miguels still on his bike.. So what is wrong with wanting universal health care? Ours is far from perfect but neither is the private system here in the uk... Cost? Well bankrupt uk still managed to do it after ww2... Thank god we didnt have u tube and brave folk willing to ignore even the wrong medical professionals who were both in the majority of their peers and now proved to be wrong... If not now.. When? I understand the fear.. Some things are the right things.. Irrespective of political views at times.

 

Maybe I'm not the best person to answer your question, there are many more elequent and intelligent posters of thought here on the forum, but I will give it a try, which is more in sync (not that lame-a$$ boy band) with my point of view.

We have a different situation here urqh. For one, there are millions of illegal aliens here, and they don't contribute to the system, they just take from it. Universal health care is free for all, but that cost of free care will be billed to those with jobs and own property and businesses. We also have a large segment of our population who have been wards of the democratic party since 1964 who have been getting government subsidies all their lives. They don't pay into the system either. We have a government that is led by people who ridicule and villify the conservative mainstream people (middle class) for not wanting to blindly follow their new ideas for change. That really turns people off too, even those who might be middle of the road types. It is that group (the middle class) that will be fleeced to finance that new and alien and anti-American ideal called socialism.

I have no problem with the government creating a new system that takes care of those who are truly in need of health care. Everyone should be able to have medical service when needed. Not what a government bean counter thinks that is neccessary, but what a health care professional deems neccessary. Elective surgery must come out of the electors pocket. Mine does, although I have never sought after such treatment. Insurance companies are very specific about what is covered and what is not.

Government interference and involvement will result in a monstrosarous mega-red tape creating organization that can only get FUBAR and collapse on itself. The military is the only arm of the government that functions properly, and the politicians do the darndest to fonk it up too. Well, the IRS is pretty efficient, but they are the bad guys though.

So, in summary as follows; healthcare for all, but something meticulously researched and studied, not something cobbled together overnight to be rushed through before the congressional summer break.

Something "so wonderful" that even the legislative branch and their families will have to be covered by.

And something that the middle class won't have to finance, while those who benefit from it are perfectly able to work, but not willing to do so. My suggestion is to get rid of welfare, food stamps and government subsidies for those able to work, and take that money to fund this new and wonderful NHS.

 

In my opinion, the root of the problem is with the Insurance companies and with the Pharmaceutical companies. Both charge too much and the insurance companies are too tight with their services. Obamacare will not resolve this nor even address the issue.

 

Plus the general torts laws really need to be tied to liability limits...the cost of medical malpractice insurance is always passed along to the consumers or the doctors just stop working in their field.

I heard today that 84% of people with health insurance are very satisfied with their own insurance.

Making everyone be subject to government run health insurance in the US is just not going to work.

And watch another fight if illegal immigrants are to be covered by a government plan.

Why not just subsidize those legal citizens below a certain income level to afford a choice of private insurance.

Since our feds have a horrible track record in running the mortgage industry, Medicare, social security, and the postal "service", why trust the anointed 535 members of Congress to run our health industry? (Of course those 535 members have exempted themselves from whatever they pass. Nothing but the best for them only)

 

Im not trying to be a limey stick me nose into others business here. I understand the needs of all societies to find their own way for their own special circumstances. Our way is not necessarilly the right way for others. Thats democratic choice. I do though stick with my view that universal health care as an ideal is a good ideal. How we all get there is for discussion in our own countires.

I do though take issue with what we are seeing over here, when your fellow Americans are describing our health service as EVIL....A service that has stood many of us well. and in own case extended the lives of both my parents and myself. As well as many others...Please have the decency at your tea parties not to belittle our service, which algthoug not perfect is working for the majority and keeping many alive and free at point of need to all. If that is evil then the worlds gone mad.

 

I have to thank A-58 for at least taking the trouble to state his views with reason and moderation. Not always the case on here in UK/European discussions.......

 

A58 reasonable? You wouldnt say that on a dark night with his array of cannon pointing at you shouting make my day urqh...

 

I was not over the moon about calling the NHS EVIL...I used to work in the NHS and witness first hand the mess it is in. The problem is the government throws money at it only to be wasted in administration. Far to many bosses with power titles and getting a new car every year or other year. And far to many crass targets thanks to our present labour government.

The NHS was set up as a short term thing but that soon was not to be the case, for all its faults it is still here today which must count for something.


I just like to say to that person who branded our NHS as Evil...If it was not for a damn good doctor when I was a child who operated on me I would be here typing this post out sitting in a wheel chair!

You wonder why I think the world is going mad when I hear jerks like that! All it dose is to dam well get my back up!

 

Well, we have about 309 million people here, and not all are calling your NHS evil. For the most part, it is referred to as socialist. The news networks are always showing the most vocal and strangest people in these demonstrations, and they do not represent the majority of the poeple out there. The majority of the mainstream media are directly in step with the Obamanator and his crew, and they go all out to portray the common people as nazi, racists, close minded, evil, etc for not blindly following and accepting the democrats/liberals/rainbow coalition/acorn and pc police's agenda. That is what is going on here. This is what the Obamanese are calling other Americans, belittling them for standing for their constitutionally protected rights of free speech and to avoid being railroaded into a system that will cost them but not cover them properly.

If they are trying to win the hearts and minds of the middle class, then they are going about it the wrong way.

 

Thanks for the kind words and moral support. Much obliged.

 

Oh nonsense....Do you realize how much paperwork/review boards/IA interrogations is involved after the discharging of a service weapon? Sometimes it's just not worth the effort....

 

Rhs nervously raises his head above the parapet takes a gulp of air and thinks "well here goes".

Fifteen years ago my wife was a fit and well business woman who ran her own IT company. She contracted a rare kidney disease which proved to much for our local hospital. The Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Birmingham UK has kept her alive despite only having 10% total kidney usage. Doctors and Nurses from many countries and ethnic backgrounds have battled through four knife edge, life saving emergency operations. First class support has been given since. The drugs she has to take cause very bad side effects, will eventually kill her but have given us time together we would not have had. She is wheel chair bound for travel over thirty feet ( at the moment).
No Health Insurance Company would have touched her
The NHS has its faults but to me it has a halo of burnished gold.
I will make no comment about events across the sea its not my place.There is the British way of doing things and The American Way and so be it. What I will say is that Twit of an MEP who spoke on US TV is talking for his own deluded self and no doubt get a rocket off David Cameron, his Boss when he gets back here.

 

Any system that doesn't exclude people who are in the country illegally is complete madness and doomed to fail.

 

A provision in the House's health-care-overhaul bill rules out federal funding for illegal immigrants.

But in many ways, illegal immigration is at the nexus of two key health issues: the uninsured and ballooning costs.

Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don't have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group. Like others who can't afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can't turn people away, even if they can't pay. Emergency-room visits, where treatment costs are much higher than in clinics, jumped 32% nationally between 1996 and 2006, (according to) the latest data available.

The role illegal immigrants play in U.S. health-care costs is "one hot button that no one wants to touch," says Stephen Zuckerman, an economist at the Urban Institute, a nonpartisan think tank in Washington.

From:

Illegal Immigration Enters the Health-Care Debate - WSJ.com

That situation (emergency room care) is another problem in America which may be different from that in the European Union nations.

 

Agreed, I also think the problem with the NHS at the moment is that patients are now seen as customers or commodities to be bought and sold in order to achieve targets set by the government. Forget giving a decent standard of care, just keep fudging the figures in order to hit targets! I don't blame the employees but the idiots setting the targets and preventing the folks beneath from doing their job.

When will people learn that you can't run everything as a business?

 

How do you feel about this in Germany T. Walpole?

There are approximately 1.000.000 illegal immigrants in Germany, 250.000 alone in the capital Berlin. These people live without any papers and without an insurance card that allows them access to the German health system. The state of Berlin considers now to issue these illegal immigrants living in Berlin an “anonymous insurance certificate” that allows them to seek medical help without fearing repercussions after revealing their identity and illegal immigration status.

Goto:

Illegal Immigrants in Berlin, Germany may receive Health Care with Anonymous Insurance Card | erblawg

Do the ER's in Germany refuse treatment to illegal immigrants under all circumstances at this time? I America that is illegal itself. By law they must be given care, without revealing their immigration status.

 

Agreed a58...But as for the Nazi bit...Ive been watching on our tv screens here..pics of Obama...I dont do ANY politicians by the way...but Obama is now Hitler on posters..the nazi jibes are coming both ways in that case...Richard...It was Palin that described NHS as EVIL. Obama I care nothing for, nor any politician, but seems he's gone from Communist to Nazi in a few short months....Mad...the worlds insane