Bismarck vs. Yamato

Yeah, Bismarck could run, but would still get pummeled by Yamato's 18 inch guns. And AA guns are really no use in a Battleship vs. Battleship fight. Of course though, the Yamato is the Japanese flagship. So it would for sure have an escort of some kind ;battleships, cruisers, destroyers, Aircraft carriers, anything. So the Bismarck would have to have AA in this fight. and not only that, but Bismarck has one major flaw...it's rudder is unarmoured, so it is vulnerable to torpedoes. My money's still on Yamato, and speed is nothing in a battle. It's power, protection, and tactics that matter.

 

Hey, what tank is that?

 

Oh yeah, Yamato also has the longest range guns in history. The Japs may have suckish tanks and ground troops, but the Yamato is the full might of the Japanese Imperial Navy. It is often escorted my Musashi too you know, so it always has an aditional firepower.

 

Mastacheef's right, Bismarck does have a weak armament. It's obvious why it's only combat mission only lasted 215 hours, and sunk 700 miles from France. Boy, the Brits sure proved Hitler's surface navy weak! I can't believe it, after sinking Hood in 10 minutes, the Bismarck was formidable. And a heavy cruiser finished it off. So yeah, Bismarck was born to die.

 

If I was on the Yamato, I'd definitely stay away from the powder magazines....

 

No ship has an armored rudder but both the IJN & USN sure beleived in very heavily armored steering gear.

 

Like I said earlier, the Bismark should target the steering gear of the Yamato. After all, it is more likely to score a hit than Yamato. Cross the Yamato bow, and bring all of its guns to bear. Even then it'll be a close business, what with Yamato's massive guns and all.

 

IF Bismark ran, she would get away. Once out of range Yamato can't catch up.

 

The steering gear on the Bismarck was protected by a 150mm thick armoured box.
The torpedo hit caused a transient whipping response which caused the stern to act like a springboard, and severe structural damage was sustained in the stern structure. The steering gear complex, encased in 150mm thick armor, was rigid in comparison to the long canoe-shaped stern and this caused the unarmored stern structure to vibrate at a different frequency than the main hull, which caused massive damage to the area near the rudders. It is believed that the rudders were jammed by part of the stern collapsing on top of them.


ps; It should be noted that the German warships the Lutzow and Prinz Eugen both suffered a similar type of stern/steering failure. The Lutzow was hit by a torpedo from the British submarine HMS Spearfish on the 11th April 1940 where she lost both her props and rudders, and on the 23rd February 1942 The Prinz Eugen was hit by a single torpedo from the British submarine HMS Trident just off Norway, fortunately for their crews, in both cases the ships had an escort of destroyers who were able to protect them from further attacks and tow them slowly into port.

 

If Bismarck gets close enough to reliably target Yamato's steering gear she is likely to take a fair number of hits from Yamato's main battery. In which case she may escape further damage from Yamato by way of a verticle maneuver.

One hit from POW slowed Bismarck to under 28 knots. Depending on what the range is when Bismarck decides to run she may or may not make it.

 

True, but even 28 kts is about equal to Yamato. The point is that Bismark has the advantage in speed. If she were to chose not to fight, Bismark could stay out of range.

 

Well the ole saying is something like "get hit in the screws and your srewed" you can surely add the rudder to that. You can also look at the Vittorio Veneto,the Prince of Wales and the Pennsylvannia as to what damage a torpedo hit to the screws/rudder can do.

 

If she runs in time. But it's worth noteing that 28 knots was Bismarck's top speed after emergency repairs and she was limited to signficantly less for several hours.

 

Indeed take a look at the analysis of the damage done to Bismarck or Kirishima and you'll see hits up and down the length of the hull and from below the waterline to high up in the superstructure.

In case you haven't seen it see:
http://www.navweaps.com/index_lundgren/Kirishima_Damage_Analysis.pdf
(Ironically she did get hit in the rudder)
and
http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/no21993-pic6.jpg
from
http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/INRO_Bismarck_p3.htm

 

Seems to be a lot of two dimensional thinking here. You're forgetting that both ships carried spotter planes.

The Yamato carried F1M "Pete's."
The Bismarck carried Arado 196's.

Both carried similar armament, and could carry a small bomb load.

However, I wager the Pete could shoot down the Arado's quite easily, leaving the skies clear to spot report for the Yamato.

 

So...after 7 years and 200 posts....have we come to an agreement yet?

 

The Pete is a 875Hp biplane armed with 3 rifle caliber MG, the Ar 196 a 970Hp monoplane armed with a couple of MG FF 20mm cannons and 3 rifle caliber MGs, my money is on the German but the Yamato carried more planes than Bismark (7 vs 3 I think).

As for the ships, while Bismark may have had better gunnery control a few 15" long range hits are not likely to disable the much larger Japanese vessel and once she starts getting hit back the German's armour is likely to be penetrated by the huge Japanese shells. If I was Bismark I would avoid combat, something the German's radar and better speed should allow it to do.