Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Why did the Japanese love bayonets so much?

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by Zefer, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. Zefer

    Zefer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    I can understand for when they where doing the Banzai attacks, but even Type-100 had a bayonet lug and so did the Type-99. They are automatic weapons, why would they need one?
     
  2. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Believe it is the link to the ancient Samuri tradition where upon only "noble birth" people could legally own "blades" of killing potential. This made the idea of "cold steel" as a weapon hightly thought of in the culture of the Japanese military. It also gave the conscripted farmer's son a direct "tie" to the tradition of the warriors of his ancestor's legends.

    It would seem to me that it was more a psycological weapon, on both the receiving and giving ends than a truly functional weapon in some instances. But then again, we had bayonet lugs on a few of our (Allied) weapons as well, which would seem "out of place".
     
  3. Sentinel

    Sentinel Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    47
    For some reason I'm imagining a tank with a bayonet lug. :D
     
    macker33 and MastahCheef117 like this.
  4. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    The Japanese tanks were rather small, but I don't see one of them considered a hand-held weapon by any stretch!:muscleman:
     
  5. Sentinel

    Sentinel Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    47
    Think of it more as a can-opener for close-range tank battles.

    (Yes, I know it's American, but Japanese WWII tank barrels are too short).
     

    Attached Files:

  6. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Only Marine Corps tanks have bayonet lugs. Actually I think everything in the Marine Corps has the abilty to accept bayonets; even the bayonets and salt shakers.

    I agree with Clint, its all about the Bushido
     
  7. SOAR21

    SOAR21 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    43
    I disagree. It's not so much psychological towards themselves, but towards the enemy. Their Banzai charges were actually kinda feared, not easily mowed down like in the video games. Also the jungle warfare gave them plenty more chance to use the bayonet than the European plain might. As for the submachine guns, I guess they were planning ahead for when they would run out of ammo, which was happening more and more later in the war.

    Plenty of grisly photos of them using the bayonet as a feared tool of occupation and oppression.
     
  8. mac_bolan00

    mac_bolan00 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    20
    actually, by 1941, japanese army officers and conscripts who were descended from the samurai class were a marked minority. ever since the army allowed non-samurai to attain officer rank in the army (1918?) the samurai class went to the navy (most navy officers and fliers during the war were samurai.)

    the nambu machine gun was designed as a marching fire weapon and concievably required a fixed bayonet in such an application. even the BAR, whcih was designed for marching fire in WW1 was considered having a bayonet lug as a requirement.
     
  9. Zefer

    Zefer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    I made this thread because last night I thought, did WW2 Imperial Battle Ships have a little bayonet on them for good measure? LOL

    Thanks for the replies everyone. :) Some helpful information.
     
  10. Sentinel

    Sentinel Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    47
    That's not as far-fetched as you might think. Attacking enemy ships by deliberately ramming into them is a tactic as old as naval warfare itself.

    Some ancient galleys had a specially sharpened prow sticking out just below water level, as a kind of "sea bayonet". In more modern times, I know of at least one Soviet submarine in which some forward spaces were filled with concrete, intended to absorb the shock of a desperate ramming attempt.

    Ramming was used in World War II, though it wasn't very common. Sometimes a destroyer would attempt to run down a submerging U-boat. There was also one case in which a small British ship, on fire and sinking after an encounter with a German battlecruiser, attempted to ram its enemy.

    However, I don't know if there were any special structures on WWII ships designed for ramming.
     
  11. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    well thats what you get for thinking
     
  12. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    230
    A famous British sub-hunter was famous for ramming German U-boats after they surfaced with his frigate. Can't recall his name for the moment.

    Yes, but by Iwo Jima the more thoughtful Japanese commanders had understood that bazai charges against an army well equipped with semi-automatic and automatic weapons is suicide.
     
  13. CometFan

    CometFan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    3
    mikebatzel, Triple C and Sentinel like this.
  14. mac_bolan00

    mac_bolan00 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    20
    armies armed with bolts had pretty much the same developed tactics with fixed bayonets. i remember the british in the book "the raiders of arakan." talk about cool fighting. rushing towards the enemy right as soon as the grenage goes off and sticking one's bayonet at the surpised guys throats when they're just recovering from the shock of the blast. no gunfire involved.
     
  15. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    On a serious note:

    Bayonets are an integral part of American service rifles as well. Somewhere on here or on the "Talk" is a link to an article about a Brit Bayonet charge in Iraq/Afghanistan during the recent unpleasentness.

    even though I dislike Wikipedia I will offer this:

    Bayonet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  16. Chesehead121

    Chesehead121 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    2
    2 words- 1 hit KO. So 2 words and 1 number. So sue me. Anyway, the code of bushido said 1-hit kills were what's up. Simple as that.
     
  17. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,683
    Likes Received:
    955
    Yep i put the iraq one up in living history a while back.
     
  18. larousse1995

    larousse1995 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    4
    Despite the Japanese banzai warrior being mental and the psychological effects and mental strength a bayonet gave him, bayonets were and are just plain practical. Unlike the the video games, a solider cannot draw and slash his combat knife instantly. A bayonet gave an instant, effective close quarter weapon. Especially consider the fact that a Japanese infantryman was issued a Arisaka, which is a bolt action weapon. Between reloads, a bayonet acts kind of like a sidearm.
     
  19. MVHAGEY

    MVHAGEY Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    1
    I actually read somewhere (can't find it now) that the Japanese were specially trained with emphasis on the bayonet due to their lack of a half decent sub machine gun and semi automatic rifle. Basically because their guns weren't the greatest. I also heard that they used live Chinese prisoners to train on...
     
  20. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    89
    It must be considered that with the warrior tradition of the Japanese that blades would always stick around.

    WW2 was a time were Bayonets still proved their usefullness as a close quarters weapon.

    When people think in that "Why dont they just shoot them before they get to you" mood, they miss an issue. The Japanese made experts out of hiding in bushes brandishing Katanas and Bayonets while screaming towards your back.

    Sure you might get the warning of the Banzai but by the time you turn around, that same man who screamed likely cut you down the center with his blade.

    Yes that wouldnt be the case every time and im not sure why they did the occasional mass charge but it gives the same effect as running at a trench and you and your comrades giving your battle cry.
     

Share This Page