Who shot down Lancaster DS735 ?

Ray told me tonight that they did ditch the bombs as soon as they were hit.Thanks for the info,Ray is 88 and all these years he thought the pilot was wounded and that they all died in the aircraft.

Mike.

 

Please send my regards to Ray and tell him "thank you" for his war effort

Also, the time frame would have been between 20.00 and 20.38. Those shot down later were not around Berlin ,but on the way back via Holland . Njg1 came from there and Idoubt they would have flown allthe wayto Berlin whereas they were meeting the stream over Holland . This focusses on NJG3, NJG5, and NJG5 (+NJG2 made 1 claim)

 

Skip is correct on his assumption, NJG 1 defended the far north of Germany and Holland proper for most of it's existance to attack on the forward BC crates as they came on shore as well as leaving the main continent. NJG 1 would have flwon Bf 110G-4's, the 3 crews Martin associated with his posting all had twin side by side 2cm MG-FF's installed for the Schärgewaffen

 

Unlikely.
I believe the chap that ran Lost Bombers died recently.

Good luck with this one chaps, I thoroughly enjoy watching these 'pinpoint' aerial threads develop.
And Best regards to your mate, Mike. Those are some odds against survival that he beat.

~A

 

maybe vonP as he was warned consistently to quit copying and breaking copyright laws by using Chorleys multi-volume works without permission

 

Forgive me - I don't want to divert this interesting thread.
But Ironically I edited out a reference to the Chorley plagiarism before posting Erich .

 

I am trying to get/find some more info hopefully?,but this is to support martins findings.

Unfortunately, there is no cause of loss. Only three aircraft were positively identified as night fighter victims, but.... that doesn't mean to say they couldn't have been hit by flak etc.



However...... DS735 had a second pilot that night, eight crew. Four survived the war as POW's

 

the national archives in kew,is the way forward,514 squadron ops record books,sep 1943- june 1944 using ref: IIM/E514/1,must be in person only...hope this is of some help,ray..

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...3201257&CATLN=6&Highlight=,514&accessmethod=0

 

The problem there will be that Chorley has already used the Ops Books at Kew for his own research - my guess is that it's very likely all you will find will be the comment 'Failed To Return'.

 

so that look's like game over,no accessing anything else martin,ray..

 

Thats right,the ORB just states failed to return.Ray is still quite angry about the second pilot idea,it never taught you much and if a kite went down what a waste of all those years of training.The crew he left behind got a new skipper but sadly went into high ground whilst in a circuit over Waterbeach,the aircraft was Lancaster LL645.

Mike.

 

Did Ray ever say why there were two pilots this particular sortie?

Usually Lancs had a crew of seven, with the exception of 101 Sqn. I presumed that there were two pilots aboard because one was doing his 2nd dickey trip.

 

Yes,he was 2nd Dickie!

 

this is the email I recieved From Colin Cripps [mailto:colin.cripps@sky.com]
Sent: 30 September 2009 20:34
To: M H Brooke
Subject: Re: FW: Feedback on the Loss of ds 735 mkII lancaster



Hi Malcolm



I have attached one of my resumes' on DS735.



Unfortunately, there is no cause of loss. Only three aircraft were positively identified as night fighter victims, but.... that doesn't mean to say they could have been hit by flak etc.



However...... DS735 had a second pilot that night, eight crew. Four survived the war as POW's, perhaps a call to the 514 contact which I have included on the resume may help. Who knows, one of the crew may still be alive who can help?

 

From Ray and myself,thanks to you all for the information and your time on this subject.

Mike.

 

Mike,

It's just an afterthought but in the same file I have on this crash there is a copy of a letter from the RAF to Ray's father, an army staff-sergeant at the time of the crash. If you think Ray might like to have this please PM me an email address and I'll gladly send it along.

 

101 was not an exception. They used a Special operator on a permanent basis, but an eight man (the 2nd Dickie ) was common in most squadrons and it wasn't exceptionnal to have a second pilot, who flew with an experienced skipper before he was allowed to fly on Ops with his own crew. Another example on this forum is Alex Campbell's 2nd Pilot Bob Griffin (514 Squadron)

 

Skipper, I think you know that the standard crew complement for a Lancaster bomber was seven. From October 1943 on 101 Sqn had, on most occasions, a crew of eight to include the SDO. On those occasions when 101 crews took a 2nd Dickey pilot (and there were many) there were nine aboard.

I would be interested in knowing of any other Lancaster squadron who had a permanent eighth crewman aboard.

 

Just as an aside to indicate how devastating such an attack could be - JB659 shot down at height by the Schnaufer crew would seem to have gone into an immediate and uncontrollable spin, so fierce that the nose and cockpit area became detached from the rest of the aircraft and none of the crew were able to bale out. The remains of the aircraft impacted with tremendous force.

 

Hi

I am Kevin John O'Brien, the nephew of Flt Sgt John Leo O'Brien.
My father ( Joseph O'Brien ) & the family always referred to him as Jack.
I am attaching a photo of the air crew with their names, nicknames and signatures
on the reverse side of the photo.

I have also got a lot of information from the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.
I am attaching only 2 of the 66 documents I have from the AWM.

Can email all of them to anyone interested.
My email address is KevinOBrien225@gmail.com
Please feel free to email me.

The Luftwaffe gave Jack christian burial.

Kevin O'Brien
43 Delma View
Gungahlin ( Suburb of Canberra )ACT 2912