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78 Squadron POW Query

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Waltham43, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Waltham43

    Waltham43 Member

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    Good Morning.......l have a photo of 21 Airmen taken whilst they were training Air Gunners at No. 34 OTU at Pennfield Ridge, New Brunswick, Canada in early 1943. It is my intention to find out as much about each person as is possible, a difficult task with only surnames to go on although l have managed to trace 6 so far. One of these is my Uncle who was lost on ops to Berlin in Sept 43 from 100 Squadron at Waltham (Grimsby).

    One name l am having trouble with is WELLARD. The only one l can find that was an A/G is one RC WELLARD who was with 78 Squadron and shot down on a Franfurt op 20/21 December 43.

    He was in POW camp 4B Muhlberg-Elbe prisoner 267487.

    Is there any way of finding out if it is the same one on my photo??

    If l could find out more about him it would be very helpful.

    Thanks.
     
  2. alieneyes

    alieneyes Member

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    As 1579045 RC Wellard was RAF the short answer is "no".

    As I'm sure you know the RAF are notoriously strict with this type of information. If you could prove he was dead and cough up the 30 quid they charge for a "search" these days you might get lucky.

    The few RAF service records I have obtained and/or seen don't really go into the detail that service files of the RAAF and RCAF go into.

    If Wellard filed a liberation questionnaire(at Kew) you might get his 1945 address and from there be able to trace his family or even him.
     
  3. Waltham43

    Waltham43 Member

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    Thanks for replying Alieneyes.....he wouldnt have to be Canadian to train in Canada though as my Uncle and a few others on the photo were brits too. As he was the only one l could find who fitted the timescales l thought he was a possible. Also l think you have to fill in a next of kin form to obtain service records as l did with my Uncles. Ah well not to worry...back to the drawing board....but l do appreciate you taking time to reply.
    If only initials were on the photo as well as surnames!!
     
  4. alieneyes

    alieneyes Member

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  5. Waltham43

    Waltham43 Member

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    Thanks alieneyes, l am in touch with Christian on a fairly regular basis, very helpful. I will try Jason too.
    Unfortunately though....there doesnt seem to be any records kept of who attended what courses, only stuff that we can mutually research.....the old process of elimination route.

    Best regards.....
     
  6. Icare9

    Icare9 Member

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    Hi again!
    Is Sgt Hayton your uncle? (JA930's rear gunner was RCAF)
    100 Squadron Lancaster Mark III Serial Number JA969. Squadron Code: HW-N
    Operation: Berlin. 3rd /4th September 1943
    JA969 was one of two 100 Sqdn Lancasters lost on this operation. See JA930. Airborne 19:52 3 Sep 43 from Grimsby. Lost without trace. All are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. Their average age was 21.
    Sgt E.B. Harvey KIA
    Sgt A.L. Kent KIA
    Sgt R.E. Langford KIA
    Sgt W.F. Garner KIA
    Sgt C.L. Hamilton KIA
    Sgt L.S. Reynolds KIA
    Sgt J.W. Hayton KIA

    As regards your Wellard enquiry, perhaps it is this chap?
    100 Squadron Lancaster Mark III Serial Number ED709. Squadron Code: HW-S
    Operation:Stettin. 20th /21st April 1943
    ED709 was one of two 100 Sqdn Lancasters lost on this operation. See ED557 Airborne 21:59 20 April 43 from Grimsby. Crashed 03:28 21 Apr 43 some 1,000 metres south of Ringkobing harbour on Denmark's west coast.
    W/C Swain, 100 Sqdn Commander, is buried in Esbjerg (Fourfelt) Cemetery;
    F/L Myers and P/O Wellard are buried in Lemvig Cemetery, while the others have no known graves.
    W/C J.G.W. Swain MiD KIA
    Sgt T. Carter KIA
    F/L B.F. Myers RAAF KIA
    P/O C.E. Wellard KIA
    Sgt R.S. Sidwell KIA
    F/S M.A.B. Watkins RAAF KIA
    Sgt R.A. Whellams KIA
    although the rank and position (Air Bomber) seem wrong, especially if the course was Spring 43, doesn't give much time for him to have got back to UK.

    So your 78 Squadron chap:-
    78 Squadron Halifax Mark II Serial Number: LW320.Code EY-Z. Operation: Frankfurt
    20th /21st December 1943
    LW320 was one of five No.78 Sqdn Halifaxes lost on this operation. See: JN974; LW271; LW330; LW338. Airborne 16:24 20 Dec 43 from Breighton. Cause of loss not established. Came down in a wood known as Roderbos on the Dutch/Belgian border, near the hamlet of de Plank. 1st Lt Kelly USAAF was probably buried locally. In the immediate post-war years his remains were taken to the US Military Cemetery at Margraten. He has been, subsequently, taken back to his home in America.
    1st Lt L.M. Kelly USAAF KIA
    Sgt P.A. Westcott PoW
    F/S J. Rigby PoW
    Sgt G.E. Wilson PoW
    P/O A. Boothby PoW
    P/O D.F. Booth PoW
    Sgt R.C. Wellard PoW
    P/O D.F. Booth was interned in Camp L3. PoW No.3239, with P/O A. Boothby. PoW No.3240.
    F/S J. Rigby in Camps 4B/L3, PoW No.267472 with Sgt G.E. Wilson, PoW No.267492.
    Sgt R.C. Wellard in Camp 4B, PoW No.267487 with Sgt P.A. Westcott, PoW No.267489.
    With a USAAF casualty, you may be able to obtain some further information from US Records, MACR loss reports etc. I'm sure other experts here will give you the contact details.
    Hope that helps.
    Just a thought: Was he there at the time of Bernice Coopers murder or was his course just after?
    There may be records of the full Names of airmen who were on each Course, so you may be able to fill in the gaps. Local newspapers might also have details of the Courses, or marriages to local girls.
     
  7. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    You will not find MACR's or records in US archives of Americans flying with the RCAF on Detached Service. Many Americans who were KIA flying with the RCAF are buried in Holland (in cemeteries all over the country, not Margraten!) but NARA holds no information on them. You could try Wally at Tribute to Americans in the RAF RCAF Station Centralia - Immigrants of War Book Information
     
  8. alieneyes

    alieneyes Member

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    You're right but as 1st Lt Kelly was USAAF, not RCAF, at the time of death you will find an MACR. I have just gotten a couple of MACRS of USAAF personnel KIA/POW on 101 Squadron.

    Most of these American personnel KIA on RCAF or RAF aircraft were ex RCAF or RAF who joined the USAAF once the US got into the war. From looking at the squadron ORB you can see that these men were seconded from HQ 8th AF.
     
  9. Waltham43

    Waltham43 Member

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    Thanks for your kind reply, sorry for the delay in getting back.
    Sgt JW Hayton was my Uncle, and his connection with JA930 was that it was the Lanc he was in on his first operation, 31/8/43 Berlin. He then did a minelaying op to the West coast of France (La Rochelle) in ED 583 and was lost on his third op, details as you correctly state.

    WELLARD.....l think the earlier one is a bit too soon after the Canadian course (photo on Rootschat and Pennfield ridge site)....l am inclined to think that the one who was shot down and became a POW at Camp 4b Muhlberg-Elbe is very likely though l cannot of course find out any more about him unless someone out there knows different?
    Of the 21 Airman on the photo l have details of seven.....a long job without initials!!
     
  10. Waltham43

    Waltham43 Member

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    Sorry, l missed mention of the Murder, details of which are on the Pennfield Parish military history site.
    The course photo l have was taken March 1943

    PO 158 Course no.9 AGs 23rd March 1943.

    Steve.
     
  11. pennfieldparish

    pennfieldparish recruit

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    The murder of Bernice Emma Connors occurred 25/26 June 1942, before Sgt. Hayton and others were at Pennfield Ridge from 22 March 1943-1 May 1943 as part of No.9 Course, Air Gunners.

    The ORB for No.34 OTU only contained class listing for Course No.1 and Course No.2. Also the local paper did not publish reports of those who graduated from "the Ridge". However I know various Ontario newspapers would make mention of graduates from time to time who were born and/or raised in ON (RCAF).

    In regards to the other researcher of Pennfield Ridge...good luck!
    The "Pennfield Ridge Research Project", as it is called, is a private endeavor of Jason Gaudet. It has remained just that...private. For example our society requested publicly held material that did not appear in a short documentary on Pennfield Ridge Air Station to no avail. Now this material has been lost to the public view and those it is meant to honour, like Arthur Stainforth (d. April 9, 2010) who was interviewed for the documentary, are slowly leaving us.

    Regards,
    G Christian Larsen
    President - Pennfield Parish Military Historical Society
     

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