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Realization of a Lost War

Discussion in 'War in the Pacific' started by Slipdigit, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    One must remember exactly what was going on at the time. The Korean "Police Action" had been ongoing for the past year and change, and while the USSR was represented at the San Francisco negotiations, they (Stalin) refused to sign the treaty since they didn’t like the wording concerning the possesion of the Kurile Islands.

    Here is a link to an article from 2008 concerning the two nations:

    http://en.rian.ru/world/20080319/101736905.html

    For a list of who signed and who was there at San Fran.

    Goto:

    San Francisco Peace Treaty

    After you read that section, you can goto the left-hand part and hit "treaties", scroll down to this era and read the treaties signed by which nations. You will notice that while the Nationalists signed a separate "peace treaty" the following year (1952), the PRC only signed one in 1978.
     
  2. USMC

    USMC Member

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    Exactly...The Japanese and Russians still have disputes over the Kurile Islands today.
     
  3. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    But it said in chapter 2 article 2 section C - that Japan renounces all rights and claims to the Kurile Islands... I doubt that Russia is any mood to give away any land. Perhaps Japan might want to pay Russia and just flat out buy the islands....Anyway, I've thought about something I never knew. Thanks.
     
  4. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    Karma, since other people have asked you questions on this particular thread, I wanted to ask you if you have met many Japanese citzens your age that are as well versed in the history of the war as you are?

    I greatly enjoy your posts. I have only been here since March of this year, but you seem to be the only gem of information and perspective from the Japanese viewpoint here.

    Are your interests a rareity in Japan? I know you commented about the lack of patriotism in Japan that you wish they would have. Does that have someting to do with it?
     
  5. Karma

    Karma Member

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    Well Ulithi, to put it bluntly, I haven't met a single Japanese person no matter what age that is as interested and somewhat knowledgeable concerning the Pacific War as I am. About the war though, much of what is mentioned here are talks of promoting peace because of the war, not the war itself as that is considered taboo. We did lose after all so it's not really a happy subject.

    As far as I know though, I can categorize the people who do look into the war deeply into two groups.

    Despite the Pacific War being seen in a negative light in Japan, it does have a large group of followers who, in the most part view the event as a legitimate subject for study. And by study, these people are extremely dedicated to learning about the Pacific War and one doesn't need to dig deeply to find a vast ocean of details, facts, and sub-categories that were compiled and also cater to these sorts of people. Even I am boggled at how much detail is compressed into each event, item and person. In Japanese, these sorts of people are called グンオタク. Gun-otaku or in the English language, the closest translation would be "army nerds". Otaku meaning "nerd" or someone who is knowledgeable to the extreme of whatever subject he/she is interested in. However from my experience, the majority of these people only stick to the facts and I've yet to see any moral or political side developing from this group. This is the first group.

    The second group are the 右翼団体, utoku-dantai or the "right wing extremists". This group are the epitome of radical conservatism in Japan and often, most members (not all) seek to justify Japan's actions during the Second-World War. By justify, this includes textbook censoring, holding protests, as well as historical revisionism.

    Both of these groups are rather frowned upon in Japanese society as both show clear interest in an event that pretty much destroyed Japan. In the international limelight, Japan seeks to be seen as a nation that promotes peace, and these "dissenters" who won't conform aren't too welcome.

    I am sure that there are people who fit in neither of these groups such as me. In my case, my interest of WWII stems out of my family's connection to this event. While I am not as knowledgeable as many people out there, I do know enough to hold a firm opinion in my field of interest, something I wish more people from my country would grasp. The Pacific War is seen as a disaster for Japan and like the typical Japanese attitude, we seem to avoid it as much as possible.

    A simple response to your inquiry about the lack of patriotism in Japan, Ulithi, is that in my belief, most people think that it was patriotism that led Japan to its destruction all those years ago. To avoid international scrutiny, patriotism was cast away entirely to appease our international neighbors. By entirely, I mean that even our own national anthem and flag are seen as products of militarism by a great number of our own citizens. Even members of the JSDF are frowned upon for "militarism" and are largely discriminated against. Once things get to that point, then you know that something is wrong. Other problems arise such as lack of faith in the government and other factors. Ultra-nationalism is not the correct attitude for a country to take if it wishes to avoid war, but in this age, at this crucial time when nations must struggle in this poor global economy, I believe that a certain amount of patriotism is necessary to bolster the morale of a country's citizens...something that I believe Japan lacks very much because in Japan, patriotism is tied too much with the ugly past. I can go on and on about the terrible political situation and the lack of love for the nation of the Japanese general public but I hope I've answered your question somewhat.
     
  6. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Very interesting to read Karma's bit. It is a window I can look through to try and understand how the war is perceived from his country today.... Liked it. More please K.
     

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