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Tigers - were they worth it?

Discussion in 'Armor and Armored Fighting Vehicles' started by Gibson, Oct 3, 2000.

  1. Jager

    Jager Member

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    a documentary world at war, the rommel volume talks about it a bit. The encyclopedia of weapons of world war II and worldwar2aces.com.
    The 88 had made its name in the spanish civil war and french campaign. However, it is slow to deploy, a stationary gun, and vulnerable to HE. After the french campaign and fighting the Char B1 the germans re-organized and began designing a HT. Many guns were selected but the 88 was the perfect and winning candidate. Barbarossa and exposure to the T-34 and KV caused the process to be hurried due to the need for such a weapon.

    the 1000m thing. it wasnt an exact number obviously...... the point is Tigers avoided close combat as much as possible and tried to keep head on as they could not be matched. obviously some tigers got caught at close range say kursk and it didnt end well but most of the time a Tiger is hitting you from huge ranges. despite the terrain.
     
  2. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    The Flak 37 was huge. Digging it in was a big job and when deployed as an AT weapon it stood out like a barn door. If the position of the '88' was found and (a big 'and') meadium SP artillery was to hand then the threat could be neutralised by HE shelling of the exposed crews.
    In the wide open desert (perfect for long range shooting) it still took an average of 10 shots per claimed kill at medium ranges and 20 at long range.
     
  3. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    The usefulness was only when the Tiger was stationary, once mobility became a factor the Tiger was useless. What good did Tigers have during the Bulge??
    Here is some math. Assuming that maybe 1 out of 3 Tigers actually got into combat this means that 500 Tigers fought. At a very generous 10 to one kill ratio that gives 5000 kills. Now assuming that 2 mediums or Stugs could be built for each Tiger that gives 3000 tanks. Now at a paltry 2 to 1 kill ratio that gives 6000 kills. Im not sure what the failure rate for PZ4 and such is, but I believe they werereliable tanks.
     
  4. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Steve,

    Where did you come up with the idea that only 1/3 Tigers actually got into combat?
     
  5. SteveM

    SteveM Member

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    Funny, you should ask - I just asked my readers the same question but in regards to the Panzer V "Panther". Anyway, I have a blog post up on it if you are interested (see below for my website).
     
  6. scrounger

    scrounger Member

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    How did the tiger tank match up against the Sherman Firefly ? It had a 17 pdr main gun I believe it was the Sherman upgunned at least it gave the Allied tank crews a chance against the Panthers and Tigers . Also The British introduced The Centourion tank in 1945 too late to see combat in WWII , How would it have fared against the tiger ?
     
  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    You can't answer it here?
     
    Sloniksp likes this.
  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    As far as mobility goes, I have gained the impression from my reading that these problems, while never going away, were certainly reduced in the middle and later production periods. While never envisioned as a "exploitation" tank, they certainly weren't in the class of say, the Jagdttiger. As an example, look at the history of Schwere Panzer Gruppe Bake in 1944.
     
  9. harolds

    harolds Member

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    It would probably boil down to who got in the first hit!
     
  10. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    IT is a guess, but based on the unreliability of the Tiger mechanicaly and its poor radius of movement I think it is a reasonable guess.
     
  11. SteveM

    SteveM Member

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    Well...I didn't think it would be appropriate to launch into a discussion about the Panzer V when the thread is really about the Panzer VI - so I decided to leave it to the reader's discretion if they wanted a brief diversion from the Tiger talk.

    My apologies - I probably shouldn't have posted that but I just thought it was funny that I had done a long blog post debating whether the Panther was worth it and then, lo and behold, I discovered the same question here but applied to the Tiger.
     
  12. ptimms

    ptimms Member

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    Only a 1/3 (and to be honest often far less) were available at one time but the vast majority of the 1,250 odd would have fought at some time which throws off your figures. If you look at Tiger battalion stats at the begining of a battle most were available but after a few days in combat the figure drops off quickly.
     
  13. Jager

    Jager Member

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    i was not aware of only 500 tigers seeing combat. also the bulge? the tigers were great during the buldge. tigers did not stop the german offensive in the bulge. it was lack of man power, resources, air support, and hitlers objectives were far too optimistic. in fact peiper's group did not stop its advance until his tigers ran out of resources. he then had to abandon them and retreat. and how do you suppose 2 mark IV's are going to make up for a tiger? The tiger was not a MBT. it was a HT and it was never meant to be produced in large numbers. it was meant to support MBT's which it faired well. perhaps you should look into Knispel's final days. the 503 did alot of damage to russian forces with their tigers.
     

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