Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

I am not convinced especially when I see that the party of AH flew out in a Ju-52 with specs like:

Specifications (Ju 52/3mg3e):
Engines: Three 725-hp BMW 132A-3 radial piston engines
Weight: Empty 12,610 lbs., Max Takeoff 23,149 lbs.
Wing Span: 95ft. 11.5in.
Length: 62ft. 0in.
Height: 18ft. 2.5in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 171 mph
Ceiling: 19,360 ft.
Range: 800 miles with auxiliary fuel tanks
Armament: Two 7.92 (0.31-inch) MG 15 machine guns, plus up to 1,100 pounds of bombs.


Looking at the Berlin of today via Google Earth, the widest parts of the street are about 100 ft wide. Well, the pilot was a very able person to fly dead center along the road with only a couple of feet on either side and take off successfully! This assumes no debris in the street like fallen building walls, destroyed tanks, etc. Now with the chaos of rubble along the strasse, I doubt there was sufficient runway to gain airspeed to left off before hitting an obstacle.

I'll probably still read your book though.

 

well it wasn't a Ju 52 as he had a Ju 290A waiting for him on a moments notice any time he desired

 

Luftikus,
I like the thought there.

 

I'd like to ask 'projectgreywolf' if the research by Abel Basti was incorporated in the book 'Grey Wolf' or is this not the case?

Some reactions here are indeed childish and I think any research about this topic is welcomed. Let the book be published before it is being criticised.

 

OFFTOPIC!:
Thanks, but to offend this Man is not a great Thing. For me the great Thing is that nearly every German today is thinking the
same Way. But with this Education comes a Problem: With the absolute Anti-Militarism minds in Germany it is nearly impossible to
be a reliable Ally. As seen in Afghanistan.... As i was a Soldier myself i felt most of the Time like a Criminal walking along German Streets....

 

Firstly, what on earth makes you believe that KG 200 were "secretive"? A little further research might have turned up a very different label.

The many witnesses to the death of Fegelein tell a completely different story. There is no doubt that he dissappeared, but he turned up ready to leave Berlin, with a mistress, a suitcase full of cash and other valuables, and WITHOUT Eva's sister, whom he had only just married, (Hitler was a witness at their wedding.) So, all of these other credible testimonies concerning the fate of Fegelien are incorrect? Or just plain lies? Traudl Junge, (Hitler's secretary in the Bunker) remembers Fegelein and Eva Braun "arm in arm" at the last 'function' thrown by Eva, so infedelity was obviously on the mind of Fegelein. A more reasonable scenario is that Fegelein tried and failed to elope with Eva Braun. She probably turned him down just on principle, never mind that he was officially her brother-in-law. And the fate of Eva's sister would then hang in the balance....so maybe that is what actually happened. The bunker witnesses certainly make no bones about this,and the survival of Fegelein is definately out of the question. We even know the names of at least one of his executioners!

Secret tunnel in the Bunker? Thats something a geophysical survey of the site could determine very easily! I challenge you to prove this alone. The bunker has not been filled in, just covered over, (I believe it's now a childrens playground in front of a block of flats. Should be easy to do a survey on. I'll look foward to the negative results of that one!)

Martin Bormann ended up under a railway bridge. Forensics on his teeth identified him. He never made it out of Berlin alive either, although that wasn't a fact until his body was discovered.

As for facts, lets dig up Adolf Shickelgruber's grave in Argentina, shall we? There are plenty of living relatives in the clan who would be more than willing to undergo comparitive DNA testing. Once this has proven to be a fraud, lets get back to the witnesses at the bunker....they can't all be liars, surely....


I'll be looking for this book in the fiction section of our local bookstore, just on the above mentioned notes. Meantime, it's authors must prove their case or go back to the drawing board.

Just one more thing, if this party managed to extract billions of dollars and somehow secret it all to Argentina, why was the regime of Juan Peron so permanently strapped for cash, particularly foriegn currency? Surely this trio would make their new country a gift of a couple of billion dollars, if only to guarantee the continuance of the Peron dictatorship, (remember, it's in just this manner that Nazi Partei coffers were swollen, with lots of money coming in from anti-semites all over the globe, including Randolph Hearst!)

 

If this answer seems 'childish', I take nothing back for all that. History should never be interpreted to arrive at a preconcieved idea of what happened. When you do your research properly, interview the witnesses, cross reference their statements, you end up with a truth that reveals itself. The evidence does the job for you. Any history that relys on speculation is doomed to be picked apart before to long. Look at what happened to the "Stern" Magazine "Hitler Diaries". An Adolf 'Buff", (David Irving), pulled it apart in a short space of time, but a diary was what everybody wanted to read, yes?

 

A movie already in production?....

This sounds very much like something aimed at those many Germans referred to by the above poster as wishful thinkers.

And selling Hitler makes for such a sure thing at the box office, doesn't it?

Anything related is a surefire money spinner. And thats exactly what I'm now going to call this....a cynical exercise in turning over a dollar.

Good lick anyway. Better this than another Adam Sandler movie, (although "Don't Mess With The Zohan" was funny and entertaining!)

 

No intelligence of ANY kind should ever be interpreted ONLY for evidence you WANT The Germans themselves made a whole series of c0ck-ups during the war because of this tendency.

Just on a technical point -

IIRC the Soviets pushed a lot of the rubble in the Chancellery Garden down into the Bunker first...they didn't fill in every room systematically, nothing like that - bu the main corridors would be full of all sorts They'd have to be....or else the last sixty+ years would have seen repeated tarmacing of the children's playground to deal with the repetitive subsidence!

 

Too many books have been written on this subject not to have a come to a common finding, conclusion or generally accepted truth amongst the theories. If the facts and proof were out there, why have so many different stories about Hitler escaping come to light, with no hard evidence to prove beyond shadow of a doubt that Hitler escaped, where he made it too, and what happened to him once he got there.

 

Just a few more little things....

The authors mentioned the possibility of Eva Braun and Fegelien being substituted by doubles. Eva Braun's arrival at the Bunker was universally acknowledged to be "The Arrival of the Angel of Death." Eva, herself, made no secret of the fact that she wanted to share the fate of Adolf, whatever it was going to be. This was such a common denominator among Bunker personel that it actually torpedoes any possibility of a double substitute. No woman in the WORLD would have been willing to play Eva on that score alone. And, do you not think that with the wedding of her sister to Fegelein, a double would have been exposed rather easily? Eva had almost every confidante she ever had in the Third Reich around her at the Bunker, (with the possible exception of her parents.) Any differences would have exposed her immediately. Eva's last hurrah at the party she gave went on long into the night and until dawn. Eva carried herself at that function with typical panache, dancing with everyone, smoking cigarettes, (which Hitler loathed), and conducting herself in a manner that was very typical of the real Eva Braun; laughing and joking, joyfully physical, and with a zest for life unmatched by any of Hitler's associates. Most certainly, it was Eva who was present.

The other thing refers to the Bunker itself. Even filled in, the ediface encasing all that rubble would still be clearly visable (and a subsequent 'tunnel' leading away from the remainder of the block very clearly visable.) A geophys of the site would be a must as a logical starting point to any investigation as to the possibility of this story holding water. This, of course, does not seem to have occurred to the authors of this 'history book', any more than the aquisition of a DNA sample and some relative testing for the supposed grave of AH in Argentina.

The fact that both of these measures have not, apparently, been put into practice, (in spite of, "Five years of extensive research"), leads me to believe it's all a media event designed to sell a few books and movie tickets.

But, I'm not the author, am I? Yet, it's people such as myself, and many others like me on this site and elsewhere that will have to be shown the error of our beliefs. Hardly likely, in my considered view. I don't think I'll get even a resonable reply to my posts about this pie in the sky.

Sorry, fellows. This one just doesn't hold water. It will probably make money though. Hitler makes good box-office and even better publishing dollars. You certainly won't be including MY hard earned cash in the final total, not unless some of the above points, (and from other comments, a whole lot more), are addressed in a manner that leaves us all 'beyond reasonable doubt'.


The title of this book is also worthy of comment. Nazi titles in literature sell better than books with a generic title or Allied title. This same phenomenon was present in the marketing strategies of the hobby of wargaming. Games with Nazi titles, (Like Third Reich, or Panzerkrieg, or Panzerblitz), sold much better than others without the same moniker. The game wasn't called RAF, it was called LUFTWAFFE. There was, and still is, so much hero worship of the German military. "Grey Wolf" is a typical example of this practice. Just for effect, I suggest changing the spelling of it to "GREY WULF". It was Hitler's codename, after all, so milk this for all it's worth.

Best regards, and happy money making!

 

The lack of a reply, reasonable or otherwise, leads me to claim victory for the negatives in tis particular debate.

If I was moderating, I would be thinking about closing this shameless advertisement down and giving it a classification of "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."

Classic debates have the representative for the positive making some kind of rebuttal that supports his case. In the absence of this, I claim victory for us all on the Forum! Another exercise in pulling the wool over the eyes of the long suffering consumer brought to an abrupt halt. In conclusion...

"Now, I want you to remember, that no publisher....ever....won a debate...by silence for his cause.
He won it...by making the other poor dumb bastard silent for his cause!"...(trumpet music, storms of applause, roll credits, que title music....fade out)

If you want to put anything by myself on the back cover, I request this....

"A shambolic butchery of historical writing that contributes nothing to our knowledge of the events of April 1945."...(Volga Boatman)
"The Best book I have read, apart from 'Backhand My Way'."...(V.K. Wade, Author of 'Backhand My Way')
"Made me want to Eat my own vomit."...(Guy The Gorilla)

 

Hello "Volga",Reviews are beginning to appear on amazon.com, some of them partial, some of them not.
I never suggested that Fegelein was replaced by a double, but there again , unlike you, I'm not a personal friend of Guy the Gorilla.

Luckily you are not moderating, as moderation, at least in your comments, seems to be something you are a stranger to. All I have ever done is ask people to read what we have reported. I had no idea the forum was a place to , "Claim Victory."
Your comments - and for me the surprising vitriol that accompanies them - bear some reply.

I have never suggested I know where there is a grave of Adolf Hitler in Argentina - something you appear to have made up.
If you know a reliable and available source for Adolf Hitler's Dna - apart from two very circumspect cousins living in the United States - I'd be grateful for your advice.
What this would prove I have no idea as the skull fragment held by the FSB HAS Been tested and as most people here will know was found to be that of a woman in her forties.
The FSB deny this, but it seems pretty definite to me from the scientists involved see Tests on skull fragment cast doubt on Adolf Hitler suicide story | World news | The Observer, plus many others.
I have walked the site of the bunker, the former chancellory, and the U-Bahn stations that figured in the escape. There is nothing left - on the surface - as anyone will tell you. Having used Geophys (GPR) on other stories, it's not the most accurate of tools at the moment, hopefully in the future it will be, and the destruction of the bunker, the infill and many other things would make such a survey very difficult. There are apartment blocks built over much of the area, which you would know if you had ever seen it.
Maybe you have, but it doesn't seem so.
We Believe the exit into the underground of the escape tunnel from Hitler's private quarters in the Reichschancellory (See Time Magazine..; ) is still there ( We have interviewed people who have seen it, but have not seen it ourselves) in the tunnels near Mohnrenstrasse, and are still awaiting permisssion to prove it.






Time’ Magazine, Berlin Despatch, May 1 1945 (available on-line) This
despatch, based on an interview with Major Ivan Nikitine, Stalin’s deputy chief
of Security Police, detailed the escape tunnel, the charred letter left by Eva
Braun and the statement attributed to Adolf Hitler. Nikitine had interrogated
many of the captured bunker survivors. Under cross-examination, Germans who had told of Hitler's
death “twisted their stories, clashed in detail, “ finally admitted that no one
had seen the Führer die.The exit to the Underground is still there in Berlin,
the Führebunker itself having been destroyed finally in 1989.


I am more than happy to enter into reasoned discussions on Grey Wolf and our Research.

I draw the line at discussions with Virginia Wade, or your friend Guy the Gorilla.

Best Regards to all on the forum, especially those who don't "eat their own vomit".

Gerrard Williams
Co-Author
Grey Wolf the Escape of Adolf Hitler.

 

Hi texson,

I have just been back to Berlin this weekend and have again walked the Hohenzollerndamm and the area above the U-bahns station at Fehreberlinner platz. Your comments were much in my mind. The Cameraman I was with is a pilot and we discussed in detail how difficult it would be to land a JU 52 in the area.
The Hoh'damm is much wider than 100 ft, and the platz by the U-Bahn station is a huge area which would be perfect for a landing. The JU 52 was a STOL aircraft used to landing and taking off on makeshift runways all over Battlefield Europe.
Baumgart was a massively experienced pilot/flying instructor, if you believe his testimony to the Warsaw court in 1947, and although dangerous and difficultit would have been possible on the night of the 27th/28th April 1945.
I hope you do read the book. I'd be interested in any comments you have when you have done so. Thanks
Gerrard Williams

 

They are beginning to come in, have a look at the Grey Wolf page on Amazon.com. Some are partial some are not. Sorry to disappoint on the Antarctic base, I missed out on the UFO's, Die Glocke, and the secret base on the moon too.
Damn.

All the best
Gerrard

 

Five five-star reviews is deeply suspicious:

Amazon.com: Grey Wolf: The Escape of Adolf Hitler (9781402781391): Simon Dunstan, Gerrard Williams: Books

particularly for a book on this subject.

Moreover, it is very curious indeed that there are no pre-publication reviews on the
Amazon.co.uk website:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grey-Wolf-E...1393/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317764877&sr=8-1


Dave

 

For some reason, probably because the book is out in the US and Canada, but not yet available in the UK until the 7th, it is not possible to post reviews on the UK sight.

I do hope this goes some way to allaying your "curious" suspicions.
All the best
Gerrard

 

For those of you who'd like a taster.....

Grey Wolf Ch.1-5

All the best

Gerrard

 

Anything is possible......I like the intrigue of a good conspiracy theory.....it breaks us out of the recorded, sanitized history and makes us think of different possibilities and conclusions......history is never black and white, and my favorite quoteHistory is written by the winners

 

Am missing the Drongo Digger from Darwin.
Has your boat sunk Volga?
Maybe you shouldn't have loaded it with Gorillas and tennis players.
G