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Europe vs Pacific - Returning home

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by LRusso216, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    From my limited reading of first-hand accounts, it seems to me that Pacific vets had a higher incidence of problems readjusting to life in the US. Based on my own experience with my father and his friends, there seems to have been fewer problems. He fought in Europe (North Africa and Italy), but seems to have brought home little psychologically from his experience. Few of the men seemed to have exhibited these signs. I obviously don't know what their home life was like, but my limited exposure to them (reunions and visits to our home), showed little of the trauma I see in my reading. I'm curious to know if others have any information about this. Granted, my reading and first-hand knowledge are limited, but am I wrong in my conclusions? Please feel free to weigh in with your thoughts or any data you might have. My curiosity was piqued while I was reading Maharidge's Bringing Mulligan Home.
     
  2. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Member Emeritus

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    I choose Eugene Sledge's "With the old Breed" as the first book too read on my new back lite Kindle, the first book I have been able to completely read in over 3 years due to eye problems. I found this simple, compelling little book a powerful insight into what men experienced in the Pacific in particular and think it does a lot to explain why people may have had more troubles forgetting their experiences. Since I was born in 1940 I grew up surrounded by WW2 veterans. The only two I personally knew who had psychological problems that lasted the rest of their lives in ways both small and occasionally more noticeable were a PTO infantryman and a ETO 8 th Air Force B 17 pilot. Few of the many others discussed the war but seem to return to civilian lives in a reasonable way.
     
  3. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I encountered a large number of veterans over the years in my prior profession. From my view, it seems that the men who were willing to disucuss their service faired better than those who clamed up about it.

    I remember one Marine in particular that fought on Iwo Jima with the 24th/4th Marine Division. His company was virtually destroyed and rebuild during the battle, losing all but eight of the original 250-something men that were present when they first went into action. He was one of the men wounded. He would freely talk of the battle and seemed to have been successful post war. He was of the opinion that people needed to know what had happened so that they would view it as the hell on earth that it was.
     
  4. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Interesting in that the two responses are diametrically opposed. My father didn't discuss his role in the fighting except at the reunions. Then, they won the war bigger each time. I never knew his awards until after he died and my mother sent them to me, including the CIB and Bronze Star. He seemed to have re-adjusted without having to talk much about it. I guess I'll continue to look.
     
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Bear in mind, Lou, my comments are certainly not scientific but just my observation.

    I've been wrong before, ya know.
     
  6. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I don't know if anyone has empirical information. I guess I'm curious about the return. I think anecdotal impressions are as valid as any. I don't think you're wrong. Your answer was based on your experience. I'm just happy that there was some response.
     
  7. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    One aspect that "may" and it's a big May, is the Pacific Theater was far more isolated. Due to the nature of the fighting, ground forces would have to endure days if not weeks of "waiting" while en-route to the beaches leading to close contact with the Enemy with little to no true retreat areas available. Nearly every battle was begun with an invasion from sea. This would in my mind induce a greater level of anxiety from the European style of mainly land based advances. Not to diminish the ground war on the mainland but knowing you were going to be put into the fight with the only reinforcements coming from ships or air forces must have played heavily on their minds. I think the Japanese reputation (real or imagined), of fanatical offense/defense was a well known ingredient adding to a heightened sense of dread. The majority also never saw a house or building and lived the majority of their time in tents.
    One other area would be the lack of R&R for troops, seamen and airmen. My Uncle does not and basically will not talk much about his time, June 43-Feb. 46, but one thing he has mentioned is he rarely went "off-line". He was ordered back to Australia for R&R after months of nothing but jungles, islands and flying. He said he was more wore out after returning than before he left. The time needed to return to "Civilization" and back to base took it's toll. Hours in a cramped aircraft, compounded by days of waiting to catch the next available mode of transportation while on 'just another island' for at most a week of 'rest' was more stressful than if he had just had a week off where he was. One other thing I just remembered was in all his time there he never saw a USO show and other than Lindbergh, who was there to teach long range flying capabilities, never saw a "Celebrity".
     
  8. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Very good points, Roger. Having a father who fought in Europe, I never gave much thought to the Pacific. Your ideas are as good as any, and better than most. I can understand the problems faced by your uncle. Thanks for your input.
     
  9. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    Good point, Jeff. One cannot conclude too much from anecdotal accounts. Having said that, I'll add my own anecdote. My great uncle who served in the MTO/ETO did not do well at all when he came home and it persisted for the rest of his life.

    gtblackwell's reference to With the Old Breed, which I recently read, reminded me of a comment Sledge made about what bothered many of the Marines that went home. He said that they were troubled most by how folks back home complained about minor, insignificant things like their coffee not being hot enough. At the point in which Sledge mentions this, the reader cannot help but compare what he and his fellow Marines had been going through with such naive ingratitude on the part of those who had not experienced the hell of war. Sorry if that's a bit off point.

    Getting back to Lou's question, I think it is probably dependent more on the individual than the theater of war. Some people are just better at dealing with the various traumas associated with war. Of course, this is just my sense of it and I could be completely wrong. I look forward to reading more thoughts on this topic.
     
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I appreciate your comments, Tommy. I can certainly sympathize with Sledge''s comments. My sense is that anecdotal evidence is all we're likely to get. I concur that the individual is more important than the than the theater, but it just seems from my reading that the difficulties were more prevalent in the Pacific. Of course, my views are my own and I'm anxious to read what others have to say.
     
  11. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    I am sure you are right that we might not have much more to go by than that. Because of that, your question may ultimately be unanswerable. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing.

    You may very well be right, Lou. Having read both Sledge's book and Sterling Mace's book recently, I have a much better understanding of how awful combat was in the PTO. (In saying that, I am only pointing to how clueless I was about it before and am only somewhat less so now.) I think Roger also made some interesting points that support your thinking.
     
  12. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    I didn't intend for this thread to become a general discussion of PTSD. I agree that PTSD is real, and it's not something you "get over". My only point was that the WW2 vets from the Pacific seemed to have a harder time readjusting to life at home than vets from Europe. I also didn't want it to become political, so limit your responses to only that point, anecdotal or not.

    Thanks for your input, Tommy. I've read both of those books, along with Jeff's book on the 30th Division and Karen Fisher-Alaniz's book about her father and his troubles. Some are European, some are from the Pacific. I'm as clueless as you are. I'm not sure of anything right now, so I look forward to reading more responses.
     
  13. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Lou, have you seen the mini-series the Pacific?
     
  14. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Yes, I have, but it's been some time since I saw it. I remember it as being violent, and that many of the main characters had difficulty relating when they returned home. It reflects what I said in my original post. Having read Sledge's book, I just don't know the answer, if there even is one.
     
  15. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    In particular I was referring to the Cape Gloucester episode, where Leckie started to lose his mind and was sent to a psychiatric hospital. The environment itself was such, that it acted as an additional stressor that can exaserbate the psychological effects of combat. I think also the nature of war against the Japanese was different. The Japanese had such a different culture, there was the racial component, western troops couldn't fathom their motivations or many of their actions. It became more than just a war against an enemy, it became a campaign of extermination against an enemy that many regarded as a sub-human species. I don't think it would have evolved into such a brutal contest if westerners had an understanding of Japan's culture and the motivations of her soldiers.
     
  16. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    You may be right. However, I have read of instances of the same kind of terror in Italy and Northern Europe. Your well-reasoned response only increases my confusion. I can see your point. I guess it means more reading for me.
     
  17. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Maybe Lou can facilitate that
     
  18. Krystal80

    Krystal80 Member

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    Both my grandpa and his brother were in the Philippines often fighting within a mile of one another unbeknownst to them. The brother told his family about his experiences and even wrote a short paper for the family to pass down. Unfortunately he passed away of cancer before I took such an interest and was able to talk with him. My grandpa on the other hand, has always said very little. The oldest brother was killed in Normandy in the Falaise Gap, would have been interesting to see his thoughts had he made it home.
     
  19. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Done.
     
  20. syscom3

    syscom3 Member

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    Maybe it was also due to the nature of the conflict in the Pacific. Disease, rain, insects and generally bland food would take its toll even before the fighting began.

    Then there was the jungle fighting at close range against a foe who took no prisoners and simply fought until they were dead.
     

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