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BFT 2013 Ardennes

Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by pistol, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. SS-501

    SS-501 New Member

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    This is the Ambleve between Stavelot and Trois Ponts, taken during the winter of 1994.
     

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  2. pistol

    pistol Member

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    Greg - I wonder how you asses the deployment of the Tiger II's in the Ardennes.

    IMO the heavy tanks were not efficient in an offensive role in this type of terrain. They hampered the advance and only wasted a lot op precious gasoline.
     
  3. SS-501

    SS-501 New Member

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    Pistol, I agree 100%. s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501 contributed almost nothing to any successes of KG Peiper, and the technical shortcomings (including size/maneuverability) of the Tiger II were liabilities in the Ardennes area that Peiper fought in. That's why he had them at the end of the column in the march order; according to the 3. Kompanie commander the Tigers were to lead when the KG reached the more open terrain beyond Werbomont and to and beyond the Meuse, though of course they never got there.

    I feel that was pretty much the case wherever Tiger IIs fought on the Western front; there was little open terrain where they could maneuver and get long range fields of fire.

    In a defensive role where the tanks had good field of fire the Tiger II could be effective, but even so the numerical superiority of the Allied tanks usually negated that.

    Best,
    Greg
     
  4. pistol

    pistol Member

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    and .. bump
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    ....and quite rightly, too !

    This is a great thread and I've enjoyed looking through it again on the eve of the Anniversary.
     
  6. educator

    educator New Member

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    Many thanks for taking the time to post all the photographs and comments in this thread. The section on the Twin Villages battle and associated sites was especially useful as I am leading a group there in the summer of 2015

    Educator
     
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  7. Claude-1300

    Claude-1300 New Member

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    I beg to disagree.
    I spoke last week with the owner of Froidcour, and Peiper's CP was along the main way between Stoumont and La Gleize, in a house named "La maison du Jardinier" (the gardener's house). That house is currently being renovated, but I trust the owner of Froidcour to save historical traces (e.g. he framed the hand written messages of the prisoner GI's in the dungeon, so that no renovation would destroy them.)
     

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  8. Claude-1300

    Claude-1300 New Member

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    Correct.
    I remember I read "somewhere" (would have to re-read all my literature to find out) that a tank indeed HAD tried to take the shortcut (rue du Fagnou). It is confirmed in this text by Henri Rogister:

    Signalons toutefois qu'à la sortie de Thirimont des véhicules du 4 Peloton de cette 10 Compagnie de Panzer Grenadiers quittèrent la pointe avancée et se hasardèrent dans un chemin de terre desservant le hameau de Fagnou et aboutissant (d'après les cartes) sur la route de Ligneuville à plus ou moins un kilomètre au-delà du carrefour de Baugnez. Les Allemands pensaient avoir trouvé un raccourci sur leur route en direction de Ligneuville. Hélas pour eux, cette voie de faible largeur se transforma en un chemin étroit et tortueux barré par la traversée du "Ru des Fagnes". Le premier véhicule voulut passer à gué mais s'enlisa, bloquant complètement le passage de la colonne qui avait suivi cet itinéraire.

    It became bogged, fully blocking this secondary road, and it took almost a day to get it out. By that time, the forces had already "gone around" via Baugnez.
     

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