German tanks in Japanese service

Never had to drive through a rice paddy, then?

 

nay, but you are historically accurate.....pffffffff :green:

Dishing factual numbers and data is one thing, but adding the correct conclusions and interpretations...is another.

(nb the men from wot are pretty knowledgeably about tank data... the only thoughts you might have is on their simulation calculus of grenade impact on tank damage...and that was not brought forward by the other member)

 

exactly...do you find a (picture of a) jap tank in a wet rice paddy ?

The dutch in 1949 in java/indonesia (lots of rice paddies) never took their sherman or lighter bren carrier (very comparable to jap tankettes) into the wet rice paddies.
Rice paddies were for infantry patrol..the tanks roamed the (hardened dirt) streets , to give support if need be.

 

Blade Runner fan? Me too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umc9ezAyJv0


Re, tanks in jungle/island: Weren´t flame tanks instrumental in rooting out Japanese caves and bunkers, like the M4 flame or the Mathilda (I believe) also had a flame version used by the Aussies/NZ ?

 

Even prior to that the embargo on scrap iron would have had some impact.
Notice that steel production in Japan starts to decline in rougly 38 (even before the scrap embargo) in the following source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=f670BQAAQBAJ&pg=PT224&lpg=PT224&dq=japan+steel+production+1940&source=bl&ots=S2M5eVb-XW&sig=YnxJZnSia3U6q_iRbHr2y3rMz90&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HxnaVPvsFcmUNtCHgIAK&ved=0CEQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=japan%20steel%20production%201940&f=false
In the material below the chart it mentions the impact of the emargo on steel production. And
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/WorldWar2/japan.htm
goes on to say:

On a different note I seem to recall reading that M3 mediums saw significant service in the Pacific area even late in the war.

 

"Wow, big words, big mouth." Ae-Sun, a bright young Korean women comes here to discuss her interest. Korean is her obvious native tongue but no doubt better than our collective Korean. You . Dude _Really, and others may differ with her on factual matters as well as introduce irrelevant post., the nature of forums but is it necessary to be rude.?. She introduced herself politely, used her real name explaining it's different order to us . You use "Dude_Really" indicating the speech pattern of a poorly spoken 17 years old . I could care less what you write about me but I would ask you to be polite an understanding about one from another country and culture. .
I do not think that being rude was your intention and I may have misread this but I think it civil to always be polite to newcomers as they acclimate


Her very first post generated a great discussion on a new topic, good for her. Until we caused it to degenerate into rather bizarre directions. Those of us who have been here , and I am a relative newcomer, understand our funny divergences but we owe respect to Ae-Sun as our new member as we do any new member. .
I for one, would like very much for her to stay.

Gaines

 

Good point. The tone did get rather "off" and I couldn't really see any reason for it. Not as bad as some I've seen but better to make the call now before we loose someone or the mods have to step in.

 

The license built 601s are kind of neat too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_Atsuta

 

Good day,
I would like to make a question in reference to the original topic.
Would someone care to comment on the following questions?
If any of the German tanks sold to Japan ever made it to the Island, where was the testing grounds located?
What would be the color scheme that these tanks would have been painted during trials and after once assigned?
Thank you
Gato

 

Gato, buried in the above is a reference to the tanks being bought, tested there then sold back to the Germans. I could not imagine how they could have transported them to Japan with any degree of safety.

BTW, I meant to post on your thread to come here to see the external dampers. Would not they be very vulnerable.

Gaines

 

Yeah another General Mattis quote. He is a Marine's Marine General. When he was CG of I MEF he had the call sign "Chaos", he cruised around Iraq in an LAV with his personal security detatchment looking for gun fights. His Marines would be in contact somewhere and "Chaos" would show up to join in. They love him almost to the point of worship, and he's the modern day "Chesty" Puller.

A few of his other great quotes are: (and he doesn't make them for the press like some General's, he really means what he says and believes it)





This is one of my favorites. He was meeting with a bunch of Iraqi Tribal Leaders and he told them:

 

Thank you Gaines
I saw the images of Japanese officials testing them in Germany.
Like you I don't see the point to ship them back.
I shall dig the buried comment in the thread!
Any ideas on the Japanese prototype/test afv color schemes?
Gato

 

Answered in the OP, they were sold back to Germany.

AFAIK, the Japanese Tiger got as far as Bordeaux, France, and the was handed over to sSSPzAbt 101, and was lost during the battles in Normandy.

The testing grounds may have varied, but the Japanese officials did visit the Henschel factory. But, I have seen some photos that look like they were taken somewhere in Russia.

As to the color scheme, your guess is as good as mine, although you can look here for various Japanese tank color schemes:
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/jap/ww2_IJN_Tanks.php

 

I don't think "neat" is very apropos.

The engines were notorious for being very maintenance intensive, thus they performed poorly outside of the home islands, where maintenance was spotty at best and nonexistent at worst. Even those in aircraft in the home islands still caused many headaches.

 

Thank you Takao.

 

I find it quite odd that you are criticizing her for not being neutral, openminded, unbiased, and objective, when you yourself are not.

Please...Be neutral, openminded, unbiased, and objective. I would also add observant.

The tracks are intact, so we can rule out mines. There is no catastrophic destruction, so we can rule out artillery. Breakdown, doubtful. Because you can easily see some ten holes in the left front-side of the tank, several of them were penetrating.

Still, all the sources I have attribute the loss of A company, 3rd Tank Battalion's "Agony", to a Japanese 47mm anti-tank gun. "Agony" was knocked out as she advanced along the southern end of Motoyama airfield #2.

 

Gaines on post #66, well said. Ae Sun is another one of our members sharing information like we always do everyday, and the information she is sharing is something that I myself as well as everyone else love to read and listen too. dude_really we can all have our disagreements and we can openly debate it, I or no one else will put you down for it because it is what you believe, but to say something like "wow, big words, and big mouth," or "Didn't you know learn that the first principles of making a study is being neutral, openminded, and objective," as if she doesn't know how to make a study is over going the boundaries of disagreeing and can be insulting.


Ae Sun continue to enlighten us! I enjoy reading your posts and the info that you share!

 

Really dude? Very appropriate name. What got your panties in a twist? I echo everything Gaines said. Ae Sun is providing some of the first good, fresh forum content on this forum in quite a while. Japanese armor is often completely ignored in the West and its a fascinating topic.

Really? Writing about Japanese tanks is equivalent to holocaust denial? Or were those two unrelated thoughts that just happened to fall in place?

Maybe what appears to be 47mm holes on the side of the Sherman? Whether it was mounted in a tank or on a carriage is another issue. I'm no combat veteran, but I've never seen a mine result in multiple AP-like penetrations on the side of a tank. Conversely, that must've been one bad breakdown to result in that!

I find that review questionable. Why not quote the actual book as opposed to a third-party review from a person who may very well be "questionable" and "biased"? I'd advise you to go to Page 24. On the left hand side of the page you'll find a photo of a Sherman knocked out by a 47mm tank gun. I quote "As mentioned earlier, the 47mm gun could reliably penetrate Sherman side armor". To imply that the Sherman was impervious is simply wrong.

 

Admittedly a light tank of a later generation, and of course, its the French... but I couldn't resist.

 

Indeed a LATER generation , more capable of traversing this mud. if need be.

A jap 1940 tankette , could also traverse this mud IF NEED BE.(but verrrry slow and inefficient..i'd say very large risk of getting stuck)
The M4 Sherman also could traverse this mud IF NEED BE.
But neither were SPECIFICALLY designed to traverse this mud (other than the ubiquitous tracks that ALL tanks have for traversing mud), and even less you can claim "the jap tanks were better and specially designed to traverse tropical mud and the american tanks weren't".

The tanks, japanese tankettes, and whatever of 1940 were designed for rapid advance over somewhat difficult terrain, to destroy pockets of resistance that a platoon of infantry is not capable of or with too many losses.
So, in PRACTICE you see that in Asian territory the rebel/chinese/brits/americans etc in 1936-1941 try to hit on the japs where they best can with their limited men and guns: in ambushes.
Now professor slime WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU 'D FIND SUCH AMBUSHES ?
ON/NEAR (CROSS)ROADS ? OR IN WET RICE PADDIES ???
Where did the japs advance through Malaya 41? Along the ROADS of Malaya or all thru the WET (in december! 41) rice paddies of malaya ?

And the japanese tankettes deployed in city/town areas were even MORE of an advantage (in the years of 1936-1941 pre-molotov/pre-bazooka days)..again: NO MUD.

Going through rice paddies was only needed to CHASE after the ambushing "rebels" were detected. If you have ample troops ( as the japs had in Malaya, indonesia, burma 41-42 china 36-43) you go after them with infantry....
if you take your tankette thru that mud it is inefficient for the purpose to chase after "rebels" or to circumvent a resistance pocket in a village. only if NEED BE (and there was no need for the dominating jap troops in the days of the japanese tankettes).

SPEED is the essence, and sending tankettes into wet rice paddies is the wrong thing when you can do it with infantry and continue the road advance with the tankettes ..