Debrecan, Hungary October 1944

All i know about this 1 is it was the last major tank engagement on the eastern front. The germans managed to temporarily halt the russian advance in to hungary @ debrecan in october 1944 in the process destryoing a whole russian tank army, but other than that i dont know a great deal about it.

Does anyone else have any idea of how many men tanks etc were involved and exact losses inflicted on the russains?

 

Hello cheeky_monkey,I found this link but under the name of Debrecen(Debrecan seems to be also used )
http://history1900s.about.com/library/p ... ttack1.htm

 

Hi! I'm also looking for some rare information on tank and other battles which took place in 1944-1945 in Hungary and former Czechoslovakia. Don't you know some?

 

Wow Patrice, wow! Marvellous site!

 

nice site patrice but not really anything i didnt know already tho

thanks anyway.

 

There were major tank engagements on the eastern front well after this date. The battles around Lake Balaton (also in Hungary) up to March 1945 were major!!

 

The name of the city: Debrecen

Actually the tank battle was in wide area not just around Debrecen.

The two main forces clashed was the 2nd Ukrain Front and the Armygroup South (partly).
Their tank forces were about 700-750 and 500 (as it was partly involved it should be reduced).

There were many tank battle in Hungary e.g. Konrad operations, and the Spring Awekening (as Lyndon said).

I am preparing an English article on the Konrad operations, but the Debrecen battle is at high priority, too.

Anyway, cheers everybody here!

Laszlo

 

Hello Laszlo, welcome to the forum. Nice post!

If there is a possibility, could you perhaps post your article here when it is finished? That'd be awesome.

I must say that apart from the Lake Balaton offensive I know little about the last great tank engagements. This is very informative (for me ), so thanks and keep it up!

 

I believe part of the reason why the russians suffered a great defeat in this area is because of the transfer of an armoured corps south to help Tito and his partisans in taking Belgrade. Please advice on this battle as it looks interesting.

 

Defeat, hmmm, how do you define defeat? And which battle and Corps did you mentioned?

 

I am very excited to have read the account of the battles around Debrecen! I always knew that there were major tank battles fought, but there is so few detailed information about it.

I am very curious after you article about the Konrad I, II and III Operations in january 1945.

 

Is there to be an article about Sprin Awakening and operations Konrad???

 

Laszlo's last entry on the forum was February 23rd. I'm not sure if that's a sign...

 

The russians really did have alot of man and material is it true that 8 of of ten germans were killed by the russians? and 4.5 to ne russians for every german thanks i didn't really know there where a lot of mager Tank battles after kursk I knew there where battles but what where the caulsuaties inflicted on both sides

 

Exactly how did the germans stop the russians? They didnt have many AFVs after Kursk did they?

 

They filled the gaps with SP guns, mostly. Cheaper and easier to make. There was never enough however, and the Germans never really stopped the Russians after Kursk.

 

German frontline AFV (tanks, assault guns, jagdpanzers, and SP AT guns) strength in the last year of the war went between 8700 - 11,000. As Roel says, assualt guns (StuG III primarily) were quite numerous, making up 1/3 or more of the German AFV strength.

 

Sorry everyone, but I have a presentation at our Military Archive in May 28th, that is the reason I cannot read forums very often

My presentation will be about the 20th December 1944 to 31st December 1944 battle which is about the encirclement of Budapest (breakthrough of the Margarethe Stellung (somewhat weaker than a fortified line)).

I attached a map of the beginning of the battle.

(After the presentation I will translate the materials I did and will publish here, and after the the presentation I will have free time to make some post here.)

Some info of this battle:
Opponents:
German/Hungarian:
III. tank Corps of the Fretter-Pico Armeegruppe which was the part of the Heeresgruppe Sud.
III. tank Corps was preparing to the Operation Spaetlese to destroy the Soviet forces West of the Danube River.
Therefore there was the following tank units in the area (I exclude the infantry now):
1st tank division
3rd tank division (armoured parts)
6th tank division (armoured parts)
8th tank division (armoured parts)
23th tank division
503rd heavy tank battalion (Tigers)
and 3 Panther battalions

(Later the 4th Cavalry Brigade arrived)

all about 248 operational tanks mostly Panthers.

On the Soviet side:
46th Army
4th Guards Army
18th Tank Corps
7th Mechanized Corps
2nd Guards Mechanized Corps
5th Guards Cavalry Corps

about 736 tanks and SPGs.

As the German had very few infantry unit here, the defense was very mobile and very wild. Many mistakes in the decisions both side, but in the end the Soviets could encircle Budapest, but this position became very passive in operational point of view. So the initiative went to the Germans who brought the IV.SS tank Corps here (Totenkopf and Wiking) and they started the three Konrad operations to relieve Budapest in January 1st, but this battle is not in my scope in the presentation.

 

21st of December 1944 (the second day) and the third day (22th December)

 

this is the third day