Where should Hitler have attacked in 1942?

In 1942 the Russians believed Hitler would attack Moscow where the main Red Army forces were. Hitler though went for Stalingrad.

What is your opinion? What do you think would be the main goal of 1942 offensive?

 

Maybe independent of other actions: Hitler should have taken Leningrad ASAP. The siege was a big mistake, maybe a decisive one.

 

He should have gone for the jugular.

Later

 

Leningrad and Moscow, nobody so far wanting to go for Stalingrad...

I personally think like the Russians did at the time, 1942 the main attack going for Moscow. Well that´s my view. The Russians did have their main force around Moscow and as well strong forces being gathered behind Moscow so far as reserve ( summer 1942 ).

This would make the Germans face the strongest Russian forces and would give the Germans the possibility that they had been looking for:to face the main part of Russian army and try to destroy it.

 

I have a feeling that hindsight is influencing our opinions here. We all know what happened at Stalingrad.

Later

 

Asking for peace is not an optuion in the poll so I go as he did with the oil he needed to change his War machine from blitzkrieg to full-schale war.

Cheers,

 

For some reason I was unable to vote. Kept getting error messages. Nevertheless, I would vote for Stalingrad. Moscow was Russia's strongest point and fortress. The Germans would have been playing the Russian game had they attacked Moscow. I also do not think that the fall of Moscow would signify the end of the war in the East.

Leningrad was not much of a threat and due to the narrow territory, also a difficult task. The goal was to make Russia surrender. The only way would be to have a war that inflicted the most losses. That would be to hit them at their weakest points, bring them out of their fortresses into the open and destroy them.

Stalingrad would have done this had Hitler not become obsessed with physically holding onto the city. He fell into Stalin's game when he did this. Reaching the Volga closed down the river traffic thus cutting a vital trade artery.

 

I voted for not to attack at all in 1942 as general Franz Halder suggested. The Wehrmacht was very, very weakened after 'Barbarossa' and the winter fighting. It had 600.000 men less than the previous summer (including the new reserves). The Wehrmacht first needed to stabilise the whole front, weaken the Russians with moderate attacks and grow stronger until the Wehrmacht is once again strong enough to attack Leningrad, Moscow and reach the Caucasus (because all the three were VERY important to force a Soviet surrender).

Actually Hitler went for the Caucasus and its oil. He then forgot about it and thought that the smelling ruins of a 'city' were more important than the oil...

I totally agree with you, Andy. However, it makes me laugh thinking of Hitler asking for peace.

The problem with what happenned at Stalingrad was that Hitler was obsessed with the city and thought that a victory there would mean total victory. Stalin, in the other hand, even if also obsessed with the city that held his name, he gave no military value to the city and then the STAVKA focused in many more important questions rather than the rubble of the city.

 

Quite correct my friend. This is what happened. I recommend that he cut off the traffic first and once consolidating his position to strengthen his left flank (or rear as it may turn out to be), move onto to the Caucasian oil or just block its delivery north.

 

I voted for the southern oilfields, but the problem was the Germans splitting their southern front to attack both the oil fields and Stalingrad at the same time. At least I believe they did, I remember reading it in an atlas of eastern front battles that I have back at my house. Assuming I remember correctly, the split made both attacks too weak to succeed and caused the 1942 southern offensive to fail.

Had the Germans focused on just the oil fields or just Stalingrad, its possible they could have taken their target. If they chose to do this, I would go with the oil fields as the most important target. For a succesful offensive, the Germans needed large quantities of tanks and planes (and halftracks/support vehicles of course), and tanks and planes need large quantities of oil. All Stalingrad had was control of the southern base of the Volga. While damaging, this would not have been as big of a fiasco as the Germans getting Soviet oil.

Originally posted by Friedrich:

All three were very necessarry for victory against the Soviet Union, but I have disagree with you on waiting to attack. The Soviet industry was growing ever larger and the Soviet strategic position stronger. If Germany didn't attack in 1942, they would have given the Soviets valuable time to prepare a defense, set up a potential offense, and mass produce all the weapons they needed. Germany could not afford to wait, to wage a lengthy war of attrition, they needed to contantly press the Russians and keep them off balance until they could take their three main objectives.

Making a massive push to the oil fields would force the Soviets to readjust their lines, provide much needed oil for the mechanized, armored, and luftwaffe forces, and set the stage for rolling up the Soviet flank next at Stalingrad and eventually Moscow. At least potentially anyway.

 

think about what makes an army move ?

fuel and bread. The last posting is a good one. southern oil fields and the multi-faceted land of the Ukraine, still the breadbasket of the area and then so necessary for the Heers march southward and eastward

 

Almost every Historian think that Hitler was very clever in switching his whole strategy southwards. The agricultural riches of the Ukraine and the Caucasus' oil was extremely important for the German war effort - now that they were facing the USA too.

This is very true, das Reich. I think that too. The problem is that what you mention was the thing to do. But the Wehrmacht was NOT able to achieve it. Not in 1942. It needed much more weaponry and many more trained men. 50 of all Army Group South's divisions were not German and were mostly poorly led, ill-equipped and ill-trained... The logistical chaos of 1941 was going to be even worse in 1942 because if the Germans complained that Ukraine had very bad roads and railroads, the Caucasus barely had ones! If you add to that the STAVKA being far more experienced, independent and more aware of German tactics, it simply could not succeed. And even less, by splitting the Army Group in two even weakers sub-groups.

More practical examples: Luftflötte IV. Its two Fliegrkorps, the IV and VIII were too weak to support both sub-groups simoultaneusly. There were not enough planes. And you had two armoured armies, each of them not strong enough to achiev things by themselves. A third Panzer Army was needed. But there were not enough tanks nor trained crews...

An attack was needed in 1942. No question about that. BUT an attack in 1942 simply could NOT have succeeded.

 

Besides, I forgot to tell that to win the war, Germany needed to knock Russia in 1942 or 1943, as the latest. But to knock Russia out, the Wehrmacht needed to reduce Leningrad, take Moscow, the Caucasus and destroy the Red Army. As I stated in the other post, it wasn't even able to achieve one of all those goals...

 

I voted for Moscow, it was the hub of all Soviet transportation, and IMO, the only hope the Germans had of defeating the Russkies.

 

If an attack could not be made in the south at all, could forces have been transported from other theaters in time for an offensive? I'm not sure about the situation in the central and northern Russian fronts in 1942, would the Germans have been able to send a panzer division down south? Or were the army groups stretched to their practical limit?

We also have to remember the simultaneous attacks made in the caucasus and Stalingrad both failed. Could a concentrated assault on just one objective succeeded? I think it could have, although I am currently removed from my sources of reference.

 

Focusing on fuel and rations is fine but that should have been planned for previous to any invasion. The Russians were not leaving anything for the Germans because of the scorched earth policy so there really was not much to gain. Besides, you cannot enjoy the riches of the territory if you have not beaten the enemy yet. You must force a surrender ASAP, especially with Russia. Just taking the land is not the challenge, it is holding onto to it.

[ 22. October 2003, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ]

 

that would be nice for the Soviets if what you are saying is true but since my good friend Helmuth was stationed to the south towards the black sea with his infantrie regiment; they ate quite well with the ukrainian women very friendly and willing to give bread to the Wehrmacht.......yeah I know it sounds pretty fishy until I saw about 20 pics of his

~E

 

What Erich's saying is true. At least all troops under colonel general Ewald von Kleist (I Panzer Army) treated the locals extremely well because of Von Kleist's order. He had realised how dangerous the partisans were and he knew how to prevent it. It managed quite well.

No, das Reich, the other Army Groups were only strong enough to hold their own positions. They had only thin lines of infantry and very scarce armoured reserves. It was absolutely impossible to send more troops southwards. That is why Hitler used diplomacy to get more troops. He got more than 3/4 of a million men from Romania, Hungary and Italy.

 

Next question: Should Hitler divide his troops or not? Go for either oil fields/Baku or Stalingrad?

Thursday, July 9, 1942

The Germans reorganize the command structure of their forces in the south of the Eastern Front. Army South is divided into Army Group A, comprised of 1st Panzer Army, 17th Army and 11th Army under General List and Army Group B, comprised of 4th Panzer Army, 2nd Army and 6th Army under General Bock. This reorganization is designed to expedite the Caucasus offensive. The plan is for Army Group A to advance proceed south through Rostov and capture the oil fields halting on a line from Batumi on the Black Sea to Baku on the Caspian. Army Group B is to advance north of the Don River and establish a protective front for this actions.

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1942/jul42/09jul42.htm

 

Well like I said earlier, and what PzJgr said about armies needing fuel and bread, the oil fields were a much more important target than Stalingrad, because Stalingrad could wait, the Volga would still be there. The Germans needed fuel (and reinforcements) desperately.