China vs Japan

Given the events over the past week (Japan trying to rewrite history and then granting drilling licenses in disputed territory) or so does anyone have any comments on a possible China vs Japan confrontation?

 

Oh yes, this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 439923.stm

Well, Japan has a fairly modern army, but small.
And it is bound constitutionally to only use it for defence...

 

I don´t think it will turn 'hot', it´s simply not in the interests of the Chinese goverment ( it´s noteworthy that Chinese television has made little or no mention about the mass demonstrations taking place ).

But the recent conducts of the Japanese are questionable, to say the least.

 

I've mentioned them before on another thread but two interesting books about conflict in South West Asia and South East Asia are DragonStrike and DragonFire by Humphrey Hawksley.

 

mildly amusing

i find the japs demands for apologies somewhat amusing. there has been a lot things others have demanded the japanese apologise for and there have been damn few forthcoming. lets compare the list, on the japanese side there was- germ and poision gas experements, live vivasection of people, the rape of naking, comfort women, a few invasions, various attrocities here and there, murder of POWs, and various other unfrendly actions. on the chinese side we have a few broken windows and other minor damages. and the japs are upset? makes sense to me.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4459243.stm

and it rumbles on...

Some interesing views expressed in the links given in the article.

 

Re: mildly amusing

What I'm really worried about is the Japanese rewriting their own history and preventing their kids from hearing what their forefathers have done. This could get very serious once knowledge of such "incidents" as the Rape of Nanjing disappear from social memory. This won't cause the current troubles to escalate but in the future...

Meanwhile it's an extremely touchy situation.

 

If i judge by things that happened here, very bad indeed.
Some catalan nationalists really believe that the War of Succesion (XVIII century) was for conquering Catalonia and that Franco started the Spanish Civil War to conquer Catalonia.
Too much false victimism, just like the japanese with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were the harmless victims on WWII because they got nuked.

 

Conveniently forgetting, of course, that those cities would not have been nuked if Japan hadn't started the Pacific War in the first place! :angry: :roll:

 

Says it all, really.



(cartoon by Stephane Peray, see http://comics.com/editoons/peray/archiv ... 50422.html )

 

some people still say the chinese shld not held demostration...no right to cause the ??? revoultion...blah blah blah...

 

You can always find "some people" who will say anything, no matter how stupid it is... :roll:

 

in my opinion, a open conflict between Japan and China doesn't make sense to Chinese Govenment now. China's military, although MASSIVE, juz do not match up to even US 1991 Gulf war's standard. I would say that their somehow between US military might around 1980 to 1990. Japan, as US protectate state have been able to divert massive wealth to work on the tech development on the part of militray poweress and their defense had been taken care of by USA and its nuclear umbrella.

Should conflict in East Asia erupted, China Coastal City would be netralised (that includes very impt Shanghai {Ecom}, Peking {Sybmolic} and North Eastern Cities {Industrial}) and China's new born navy will prob repeat its 1905 defeat. So everything back to sq one for China ... NOT WORTH IT. I think the chinese Leaders know better than i do on the losses or gain if war erupt. Not to forget USA would be on Japan side and Uncle Sam would be more than happy to see China rising power being surpressed. Taiwan on the other hand might be using the opportunities to try something funny (dun forget Tibet and Russia as well). It juz doesn't not worth it, PERIOD :x !

In my opinion, CHINA should cont to exercise its rising ecom and military power as a bystander in mist of world changing politics. Wat history tell us, Happens to Portugese, Dutch and UK, decades of expansion and wars/ conflicts will only led to decline. CHINA should keep its cool until the day US power decline and fill in the vacum, working closely with SEA and India. With that, Japan will auto "surrender" to China ecom might.

Sun Zi quoted :"to win war/ battle without a fight or blood shred is the wisest".

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Please tell me how expansion itself led to the downfall of the Portuguese Empire, the Dutch Empire, the British Empire? I think you'll find that a lack of bullion and naval muscle, alliance wars, and the rise of indigenous nationalism were the main causes for the fall of these empires respectively.

 

I haven't recently checked up on modern Japanese and Chinese warfare tech, all I can say is: China has the numerical advantage.

 

Translation for us dummies who don't speak Latin?

 

I think it translates as

Actually, Wiki gives:

 

Right roel,u've said it all...And it's decline is due to over expansion in the first place!

 

Perhaps you as a Dutch could enlighten us in your opinion on: 1) Why the decline of Once Mighty Dutch Navy, Its colonies and Dutch East Indies and 2) The decline of Biggest Empire in History, the British Empire, Most powerful Navy of its time, its colonies and British East Indies 3) USA ?

On the other hand, What are the race, countries and culture that endure the test of time and still gog strong (if not re-emerging) today after hundreds if not thousands of years. What are their secret? We prob can do a comparsion of them and the Portugese, Dutch, USA and even the Soviet Union which own the BIGGEST empire (in land size) in history of mankind.

 

In a word: Britain. It was British naval power that destroyed the might of the Dutch, and French land power that destroyed the Seven Provinces themselves. Halfway through the eighteenth century the Dutch had spent their money on too many alliance wars and so they could no longer truly sustain empire.

A gradual process, most importantly caused by internal uprisings in just about every last colony they had though. That's why I gave indigenous nationalism as the greatest cause for the fall of this Empire.

Hasn't fallen yet... When it does, it will probably be because of their enormous debt and economic reliance on oil.

Lessons? The Chinese were probably overrun more often than any other nation in history. The only real power they have as a country is culture; they have always assimilated their usurpers or simply resisted all change brought about from the outside until they decided on it from the inside.

The defeats of 1842, 1860, 1895, 1898 and 1905 are pretty telling as to the strength of the Chinese in those days, though.