Grant in Burma 1944

Does anyone have any information on the use of the Grant tank in
the Burma campaign, 1944. I know the Grant was considered
obsolete by European standards in 1944, but I read in Frank Zumbro's
The Iron Cavalry(great book by the way), that the Grant did suprisingly well in the jungle.

Any help much appreciated.

 

Side note: the Grant was actually much appreciated by the Brits in N. Africa as it's 75mm gun outranged most of the Panzers in use at the time and was able to penetrate at goodly distances. It was a stop gap tank however and with the advent of the M-4 Sherman it's time was pretty much over except perhaps in less armor intensive arena like Burma.

 

Osprey's old Vanguard 6 "The LEE/GRANT Tanks in British Service" has about 18 pages (out of 40) covering the Lee's use in Burma. As author Bryan Perrett says, "Whilst it was now considered obsolete in other theatres, the Lee was the ideal tank for northwestern Burma and Manipur." I don't know whether this volume is being reprinted by Osprey, but it's worth a look.

 

Side note to the Side note:
The 47mm gun was actually a better tank-killer than the 75mm, but most Brit crews in North Africa tried to use the 75mm gun for preference, and in doing so tended to expose their tank too much and get whalloped.

However, that does not detract from the fact that it was a very useful stopgap, and was much appreciated.

 

Ricky wrote:

Perhaps you are mixing up the French B1 bis with the M-3 Grant. Both had a low velocity 75mm however the Grants secondary armament was a high velocity 37mm whereas the B1s secondary armament was a rather effective 47mm. The 75mm on the B1 was only 17 caliber IIRC thus was not a very good tank killer whereas the Grant 75mm was the same M-3 that was mounted on the M-4 Sherman a 40 caliber gun, not the worlds greatest tank killer but much more effective than the shorter barrelled B1 75mm and deadly against Panzer IIIs and IVs out to 1000 meters at least. The 37mm on the Grant would kill most Panzers out to about 1000m also but would be defeated by the frontal armor if they had the additional bolt on armor or upgraded armor version.

 

Only mixing up the calibers - I meant 37mm.

 

IIRC most of the Grants had the M2 gun and not the better M3?

DCM, the Grant was bad, but the japanese AT-guns were were even worse. The best they had was the german 37mm gun, which was obsolete by 1939, at the end of the war they made a few 47mm guns, but that was too little, too late.

 

Hi.

Well, actually the japanese army used their 75 mm field guns for AT-purposes, too. Especially the type 90 field gun was very effective against all allied tanks.

The type 1 47 mm AT-gun was introduced before Pearl Habour and at least 2300 guns were produced. The medium M3 was no larger problem for the gun.

Yours

tom!

 

Thanks fsbof, I'll check that out.

The Japanese also used men in pits with 250 lb. aircraft bombs and rocks
to blow up the Grants.

 

yeah them japs were pretty crazy

 

I think the word you're looking for is "different". Culturally, that is. Being self-sacrificial isn't all that strange if you are promised eternal honour and glory, whilst not having been taught that dying is probably bad for you.

 

Roel wrote:

yeah them japs were pretty crazy

 

Was it both "Grants" & "Lees" in Burma? I have only ever seen Lees photographed.

 

Hello David, a pic of Burnese Grant of the 3rd Carabinier on the Mount Popa massif.
Patrice.

 

Patrice.

That looks more like a Lee to me. :-?

 

It's a Grant.

Lees have an additional MG turret on top of the 37mm gun turret.

 

I thought that the shape of the turret on the tank in the photo, was more "Lee-like"

The Grant turret had a lower profile, surely. :-? ?

 

The Lee had a rather flat gun turret with additional MG turret, but the Grant had a higher gun turret. The two tanks therefore weren't all that different in profile.

 

I swear the Grants turret was flatter.

It is on my models.

I wish I could scan some pics for you, to show you what I mean. I have a Chris Ellis book that shows clearly the turrets of the two tanks on the same page. The Grants is flatter & overall lower than the Lee.
The Lee turret also looks very much like the one in Patrice's picture.

 

David:
I agree. That is NOT the standard Grant turret as depicted on my model of the subject. With that said, it doesn't look like the stand Lee turret either... turret-shape and gun mantlet looks different to me.

Tim