Paris Riots

Today is the ninth consecutive night of rioting in Paris, and there seems as no end is in the foreseeable future. And now, the rioting appears to be spreading to other French cities, including Dijon and Marseille.

This seems all to similar to the Watts riot in 1965 and, more recently, the Rodney King riots in 1992. Both involved minorities uprising against, as they see it, an oppressive and cruel government. The majority of the rioters in Paris are North African and claim that the French government is completely ignoring their basic human needs.

To our French posters, is this discrimination truely as bad as news claims are portraying it to be? Is it quite noticeable, or is it more of a hush-hush, under the table, de-facto segregation?

 

Thanks, Zhukov! I got my impression from a news story the other night, but I don't know how accurate the information is.

Hmmm... maybe this query should be posted on other boards as well?

 

That's a loaded question. Like "Do you still beat your wife?"
There's a third possibility..maybe the claims of discrimination are just an excuse to riot/loot as in LA. Maybe that's not the case but it's a possibility.

 

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Which news are you referring to?

Surely there is discrimination, especially against muslims, but certainly not anything like segregation.
Muslims are often disadvantaged when applying for a job, or when they want to rent an appartement, or even when they want to get into a night club.
The governement imposed strict laws against such discrimination, but these are of course hard to aply.

But there certainly is not anything like general anti muslim discrimination.

The riots that are taking place right now have nothing to do with discrimination or anything like it.
The rioters just take pleasure by destroying cars, stores and having a go at the police.

What really shocks me about all this is not that some bullies chose to express their anger by burning cars, it is that they are destroying their neighbours cars....
If they think they are disadvanteged why don't they go in some "hip" rich neighborhood, such as Neuilly for example and burn down some Jag's, Mercedes....
When you're think you are poor there is no interest in destroying the little you have.

Surely some of those HLM where the violence is taking place are really not nice neighborhoods, but with riots like they are taking place now, we know why there is not much chance for the situation to improve.

 

It seems from here, with the sporadic news I get, that these riots are indeed quite irrational of nature and that they aren't based on any structured grievances among the Muslim population in France. It gets quoted repeatedly that the riots were sparked by the death of two French Muslims who hid in an electric switch house (or whatever it's called) while being chased by the police, and were electrocuted. The fact that the French police is being blamed for their death shows that the rioters aren't backed by reason.

 

That almost sounds like they emigrated to France from wherever, now they're angry because they're not being catered to? Because the natives don't really want them there?

Am I reading this right?

That's something I've never understood, either. "We have very little, so we'll riot against oppression, and destroy our own neighborhoods and property." It just doesn't make any sense!

 

Well in France there is one important political party which advocates a very tough aproach against immigrants.
This party regualarely gets some 18-20% of voices.

So this percentage of population surely thinks that there are too much muslims in the country.

Other people do not necessarily have a problem with muslims but are not always "pleased" about some of them either.
Because they are relatively more represented in crime statistics, the police will control them more often.
Because they often have problems(or are not willing) to pay their appartement, they are more likely to be disadvantaged when they look for one.
Because they often seek trouble in nightclubs, they are more likely not to be led in.
This list could go on and on, and surely most muslims are not criminals, and do not seek trouble, but sadly because of the actions of some "black sheep", a significant part of the population has a negative view on them.

 

Castelot wrote:

I don't mean full-fledged legal segregation. I have a good friend, who is originally North African, who moved to Canada from France, and he has told me that he was discriminated against, even barred from going into certain places during his stay in France. What I was asking is if these people are being discriminated against on an economic/social basis, not a legal one, of course.

Mainly CNN and BBC, that's why I ask.

I figured not. I mean, France and North Africa have had relations for some time now (albeit not the best), and such discrimination seemed unlikely.

Roel wrote:

It seems that with the swiftness of the rioting (IIRC, it started on the same night as the 2 teens death) and its persistant ferocity that these people were waiting for an excuse to riot.

 

Well, as I already said, unfortunately such discriminations do happen.
They are exceptions but they exist.

Please tell your friend that I feel sorry if he has been treated unfairly in France.

 

The rioters are just another form of terrorists - they torched a nursery and peoples bussinesses. Hey- I ain't saying the French are big on racial equality, but these Muslims are claiming the same racial discrimination garbage all around the world - USA, Canada, Britain, France etc. What I would like to know is how can anyone discriminate against them? Everyone's too scared. In Britain, its racist to even disaggree with them - everyone is so scared of being labelled a racist.
What sickens me is that Chirac (sp?) has allowed this chaos to continue for days. If it were anyone but Muslims that were causing the riots, the French would be taking action, but everyones way too scared, cause anyone who stands up to them are racists. Now, I'm not saying all muslims are like this - some of them are very nice (in fact I have several moderate Muslim friends).

 

well el pablo you obviosly dont know what it means to be a muslim juvenile and live in a western country especaly since 911

so keep such bullshit like they are terrorist for your self these are unemployed uneducated frustrated human beings who live on the edge of the socitey often labeld as terrorist (like you did ) or criminals and banned to the edges of the city life so it is only a matter of time till they explode

 

al amin wrote:

If we kept our opinions to ourself this forum would be rather boring

I happen to agree with el pablo. The rioters are attempting to use violence (a terror tactic) to force the French to change their society to suit them. These people aren't living in crushing poverty with the boot heel of oppression on their necks. Far from it. Their standard of living is much better than they could have in their previous countries...which is why they are in France.
IMO you are rather tolerant of this type of violence against others..isn't that inconsistent with your pacifist beliefs expressed in other topics?

 

i never agreed with this violence its only the cause and the effect that follows

 

Why? How hard have they tried to assimilate into the local culture? Until they do, they will remain marginalized. Failure to assimilate means self-imposed problems that they prefer to blame on others.

In other words, "take care of me, because I don't want to do it myself."

 

At the same time, he tells me how other people are very nice, and how beautiful France is, and, unsurprisingly, how good the wine is and how beautiful the women are. I think he'll get over it. Anyways, I wouldn't want him to feel special on my, or your, account. :lol:

It is really unfortunate, Al Amin, I won't argue that, but, like Tom mentioned, alot of their situation is due to their refusal to accept anything Western. I can understand this to a point; much of Western culture is blasphemous in the Muslim world, but the point is they do not live in the Muslim world anymore and have to accept new social norms and ideas to fit into such a society. Of course they will not make it if they do not try. Organisms must adapt to new enviromental conditions, even if they are humans and the changes are self-imposed.

Then you have people who are never happy anywhere they live. My aforementioned friend's parents are very bitter people. They despise Canada, that is, whenever they aren't enjoying the free, modern health care and the absence of religious intolerence. :roll:

 

al amin wrote:

What do you call a gang of young men who pull a woman in her 50s and on crutches from a bus, douse her with an inflammable liquid and set her afire? Misunderstood? Are they seeking social justice by murdering innocent people? What's next? Beheadings and roadside bombs?

 

900+ cars burned , 2000+ cars stolen , thousands of cases of arson , police fighting battles with rioters , man if this isn't anarchy I don't know what is.

 

That's a point that I've never understood. They complain about the way things are done in western nations, like US, GB, lbF*, but they keep coming! If these places are so heinous, stay the hell out! What gives?





*la belle France

 

Because people, no matter what their ethnicity, like having things exactly their way. Many people come to these countries you mentioned for one from of economic opportunity or another. However, once these people get here they realize that this new society is against their beliefs, be it religious, social, or whatever, it is only human nature to b*tch and moan about it. Excusez mon anglais.

 

Where do you live?

I live in a suburb of newcastle called fenham, where there is a high population of Pakistanis. I wans't here 2 days before they were telling me to f**k off back to North America. I had done nothing to them to deserve this. You obviously haven't had to live in a Muslim Ghetto-in-the-making. So why dont you keep your worthless opinion to yourself?
By the way, 80% of Pakistanis are pro-Bin Laden (actual statistic), the other 20% dont necessarily like the west either, I think I've got a right to say there are terrorists in France at this moment.

Exactly. France's Liberal government fuels it. They are to blame as well. They let too many in.