Bloody Battles

which battle do you think is more bloodier? Stalingrad or Berlin?

 

Berlin as I believe that the Russians had nearly 500,000 in their drive on that capital. Given German casualties in and around Berlin I reckon that it was more bloody overall than Stalingrad was.

 

What Stalingrad do you mean? Battle in town alone? The entire german south campaign in 1942?Battle from 17 July or 23 August?

 

Same could be said for the Battle of Berlin - do you mean the battle for the city itself, or the whole operation from the crossing of the Oder onward?

 

Battle of Prussia – June 22, 1944 to August 16, 1944 – Soviet Union launches the greatest offensive in human history. Its aim is to destroy 100 German Divisions guarding Prussia and Poland. Hitler does not give the order for the Massive German Army Center to withdraw and the Army is totally destroyed. Germany lost 800,000 killed/wounded/captured and Soviet Union lost 1,300,000 killed and wounded. This was the greatest disaster to befall on the German Army in World War II.

This information I've found on the strategypage.com

I believe It refers about the Vistula-Oder Offensive and the East Prussia Offensive as a one grat battle.

 

hmm seelow there are som russian massacre but berlin surend in few days but the stalingrad kessel there on volga rivere where in one day germans win but next day russian i think stalingrad is more bloodie

 

Berlin isnt talked about as much as Stalingrad why? Is it because the Russians pull of a win and the Germans dont?

 

The 6th Army was certainly victorious at Stalingrad!

/irony

 

in losing

 

yes but the the soviets have stalingrad in 2 monts after soviet offensive back the germans needet 1 year

 

In terms of deaths, the Russians lost more men around Berlin than the Germans did in Stalingrad. That's why we're having this discussion...

 

More death in a shorter time. Seems like the Germans were still verey good soldiers in the end. Seems like those young and old recruits fought better then professional soldies.
I'm amazed the Germans managed to held Berlin so long. Given the Russian numbers in men, tanks, guns and planes you would think that they were capable of levelling Berlin in one day.

 

Urban fighting cancels out most of the advantages the Russians had - numbers, tanks, tactical flexibility. Furthermore, the Germans were fanatically defending their own capital, and for a while during the opening phases of the offensive they were led by the most competent defender in the Wehrmacht, general Heinrici.

Of course, the Russians weren't too mindful of human life, either.

 

No wonder, with a leader that once said: "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"

 

That would be Stalin.

 

Congratulations, Christian!

 

I belive Eichmann is also quoted on this one, but he was probably only quoting Stalin himself.

 

I got it of our tank site and it says that it was Stalin
check yourself

http://www.military.cz/panzer/index_en.htm

speaking about the site, apart from the nice tank pics, there's hardly any details about the tanks. Oke, gun, max armour, max speed and crew but that's it. I wonder, can we update that, fill in the missing spots, extend the info, something?

 

Quillin, please see here for details:
http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3891

 

no wonder ike decided to let the russkis have belin....i didnt know it was worse than stalingrad...