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muzzle brakes

Discussion in 'The Tanks of World War 2' started by jeaguer, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    .

    recently , I observed that some tanks like the T34/85 and the sherman did not have muzzle brakes ??

    since recoil dampening devices were well known by both side at the time
    why were they not fitted , is there a draw back to their use , did the german not fit them on some vehicles ??

    .
     
  2. Boba Nette

    Boba Nette New Member

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    I think that if the vehicle didn't have a muzzle brake,the recoil system and the vehicles weight were enough to handle the recoil.Just a guess.
     
  3. crossbow

    crossbow New Member

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    It all has to do with a balancing act...

    Both Sherman and T-34 had small calibre guns, so the recoil could be compensated by mechanical means.

    Most large calibre German guns had brakes because otherwise mechanical compensators would become rather cumbersome.

    Kris
     
  4. Christian Ankerstjerne

    Christian Ankerstjerne Member

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    The Jagdpanther 38 and the Jagdtiger didn't have muzzle brakes either.
     
  5. Gryle

    Gryle New Member

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    There are several reasons for and against using a muzzle brake.

    They work by redirecting the gasses produced by the propellant and so work best for a gun that's firing with a high charge. In a towed gun the reduced recoil means you can used a lighter carriage, but the muzzle report is more punishing on the crew, in a tank gun it means the gun may require a shorter recoil stroke and/or a a lighter recoil buffer system important in the confines of the turret, in both cases it can cause more dust to be kicked up making it harder to see the fall of shot.

    In a WWII setting note that most of the smaller calibres don't use one, 37mm, 2 pounder, 50mm, 6 pounder (except some of the later ones). It's only once you get up to the larger, longer, more mobile 75mm/3 inch-and-over sizes that there is a wide spread use of muzzle brakes.

    There are always exceptions, the 25 pounder had one added for AP with super and super + increment. They weren't always fitted even when they could be, it's difficult to think of an anti-aircraft gun with muzzle brake despite the fact that they share a good deal in common with their AT counterparts being a large high velocity gun, the 3.7 inch didn't have one neither did the 88mm.
     
  6. BMG phpbb3

    BMG phpbb3 New Member

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    if i remember correctly later model shermans with the 76mm gun did have muzzle brakes. however i find it strange that the T34/85 did not have a muzzle brake.
     
  7. bosworth gannaway

    bosworth gannaway New Member

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    I have also read that tankies didn't like some Sherman muzzle brakes because they kicked up too much dust and made their firing position easily identifiable.
     
  8. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    I'm sure this was a problem for all muzzle brakes, yet the Germans in particular put them on the great majority of their guns. Even small field guns like the 5cm Pak38 had a muzzle brake.

    I reckon the German designers felt that the reduction of recoil was worth many sacrifices in other areas. It allowed them to put vastly heavier guns in medium-sized vehicles or on small carriages.
     
  9. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    Muzzle brakes tend to be less troublesome if the bottom portion is solid. This allows the blast to be redirected as usual but does not throw up dust. In some cases it will help to keep the muzzle from trying to climb.
     
  10. bosworth gannaway

    bosworth gannaway New Member

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    I don't know if muzzle brakes help prevent muzzle climb on big guns, but they certainly work on smaller weapons like the Thompson Sub-machine gun. I fired a couple of mags. through a number of SMG last year when on holiday in Vegas. One Tommy without the Cutts compensator fitted was all over the place when I fired it, the other damn near cut Mr. Ben Laden ( he was printed on the target ) straight in half with pretty much all of my rounds through his belly button !
    Muzzle climb was also reckoned to be a problem with the Browning Automatic rifle, but this was allegedly negated by holding it on it's side when firing when it then became a fine trench broom !
    BG
     
  11. shermanologist on watch

    shermanologist on watch New Member

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    The German opted for the larger gun on their tanks and adding MB was important but the drawback was that the gun COULD not safely be fired without it.
    A MB is a difficult part to make and the US chose to avoid them initially especially as they opted for less stressed guns (less propelling powder in the case) to minimize wear (replacement barrels had an ocean to cross before reaching the troops).
    In fact American MB were 'blast deflectors' for their 76 and 90mm guns as the escaping gases from the muzzle raised much dust and obscured vision of the fired round on the objective. This is the official designation and this explains why the first Sherman 76s were not fitted with them (remember, hard to produce, hence the delay). Same for M-18.
    HTH
     
  12. merlin phpbb3

    merlin phpbb3 New Member

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    MB's.

    I remember correctly from my Gun-Fitter traning at Lulworth many years ago, word for word.
    "It (mb) assists in dissapating recoil energy."
     

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