Gurkhas

So can people who aren't Asians join the Gurkhas as well?

 

Gurkha soldiers are all Nepalese. British officers used to provide the leadership, I believe gifted officers still are seconded to the Gurkhas.

 

They still provide the officers for the British Army Gurkha units. I would imagine that the Indian Army Gurkhas have Indian officers.

 

I imagine just asking this question will cause some few people to cry outrage however I never let such matters deter me;
In what combat actions have the Gurkhas lived up to their reputation as some of the toughest fighters in history? I'm not doubting that they have done so, mind you, but details have been somewhat sketchy in most historical accounts I have encountered to date.

 

This link may be of interest to some of you - although there seems to be a contradiction in the intro - is it 13 or 26 ?

http://www.nepalesekhukuri.com/vcs.html

 

Pretty good site.

 

Well you have got me to respond to one of your posts.

There are no individual records of fantastic heroism or bravery but they are now only a small numbers and work along side the normal Brit squaddies. Needless to say they live a hard life in Nepal, one that we in the west cannot appreciate and they are given the same training that the rest of us in the world’s best army receive. They do a good job and if there reputation precedes them then the physiological warfare aspect is good to keep going. Personally speaking I am glad they are on my side.

 

So they havnt done any famous charges or anything of grand?

 

To be fair and to put things in perspective slightly, yes their are acts of bravery amongst the history of the Ghurkas, I can recall a Royal Tournament in the 1980s were there was a re-enactment of a WWII action where a Ghurka soldier won a VC by taking out 3 Japanese machinegun positions with his Kukhri.

For all we (The British) are proud of the Gurkhas, they tend to be (Shamefully IMO) overlooked and neglected. Although fully trained members of our armed forces, they are not entitled to pensions or benefits in the same way that British or Commonwealth citizens are, and in terms of the history, the whole issue of the Empire and Commonwealth involvement in the CBI theatre (Where the Gurkhas mainly served in WWII) tends to be glossed over and forgotten.

I don't believe their are any famous Light Brigade style charges or famous "Stonewall Jackson" style defences, and as the possibly the last vestiges of the colonial/Empire era, the foreign Gurkhas don't have any notable actions that the world as a whole seems to have sat up and taken note of, but they are tough troops. In a small British army that has prided themselves on the quality of its soldiers they are regarded as among the best regular troops, the elite of the British infantry are the Royal Marine Commandos, the Parachute Regiment and the Gurkhas and there is not a great deal to choose between them.

 

Recently nothing to crow about, there agian neither have many Brits nor Americans.

However, in the past.

On 12 May-13 May 1945 at Taungdaw, Burma (now Myanmar), Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the most forward post of his platoon which bore the brunt of an attack by at least 200 of the enemy. Twice he hurled back grenades which had fallen on his trench, but the third exploded in his right hand, blowing off his fingers, shattering his arm and severely wounding him in the face, body and right leg. His two comrades were also badly wounded but the rifleman, now alone and disregarding his wounds, loaded and fired his rifle with his left hand for four hours, calmly waiting for each attack which he met with fire at point blank range. Afterwards, when the casualties were counted, it is reported that there were 31 dead Japanese around his position which he had killed, with only one arm.

and

"The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the award of the VICTORIA CROSS to :- No. 10119 Rifleman Tullbahadur (sic) Pun, 6th Gurkha Rifles, Indian Army. In Burma on June 23rd, 1944, a Battalion of the 6th Gurkha Rifles was ordered to attack the Railway Bridge at Mogaung. Immediately the attack developed the enemy opened concentrated and sustained cross fire at close range from a position known as the Red House and from a strong bunker position two hundred yards to the left of it. So intense was this cross fire that both the leading platoons of 'B' Company, one of which was Rifleman Tulbahadur (sic) Pun's, were pinned to the ground and the whole of his Section was wiped out with the exception of himself, the Section commander and one other man. The Section commander immediately led the remaining two men in a charge on the Red House but was at once badly wounded. Rifleman Tulbahadur (sic) Pun and his remaining companion continued the charge, but the latter too was immediately wounded. Rifleman Tulbahadur (sic) Pun then seized the Bren Gun, and firing from the hip as he went, continued the charge on this heavily bunkered position alone, in the face of the most shattering concentration of automatic fire, directed straight at him. With the dawn coming up behind him, he presented a perfect target to the Japanese. He had to move for thirty yards over open ground, ankle deep in mud, through shell holes and over fallen trees. Despite these overwhelming odds, he reached the Red House and closed with the Japanese occupants. He killed three and put five more to flight and captured two light machine guns and much ammunition. He then gave accurate supporting fire from the bunker to the remainder of his platoon which enabled them to reach their objective. His outstanding courage and superb gallantry in the face of odds which meant almost certain death were most inspiring to all ranks and beyond praise."

these are only 2 of the 11 Gurkha VCs awarded. To me these are outstanding acts of bravery.

The gurkhas also formed the backbone of the Chindits.


However, in recnet times, due to the nature of the wars to be fought fewer excepional acts of bravery in the face of the enemy will be seen or recognised.

 

And of course they were originally encouraged to serve in the British Army as they impressed the conquering British troops with their valour.

 

They certainly impressed everyone they've ever fought.

 

There have been good fighters from all over the world. French,Canadian,British,Americans ect. have all done exceptional acts of valor, I think whats make then revered isnt there actions but good marketing. Humans can be valorous it doesn't matter on race but your mindset.

 

I think at best that's nonsense at worst it's insulting.

They're not respected because of race, there's no doubt that regardless of ethnicity individuals of any background can perform acts of valour. They're respected within the British army because they have earnt a reputation as among the toughest and most dedicated soldiers serving our nation and are regarded as so by men who have served along side them and commanded them, yet you who have clearly never had anything to do with them chose to dismiss that as "good marketing".

I think that's disrespectful and insulting and I would ask what qualifies you to make that rather scathing assessment.

 

Again you miss the point. Revere you are looking as a westerner and you have to think in a different way, as it is not just mindset.

They are brought up in a different way of life and they live completely different lifestyles. One that the majority of westerners cannot, on the whole appreciate.

I doubt if 70% of western troops could pass the entrance tests that they have to pass. So their strength and stamina are IMHO superior to the majority of modern day troops.

Their honour is beyond reproach good friends to have bad enemies to fight against. This means that for them to gain awards such VC then they have to be the best of the best, where the bar is set to a higher level than normal.

Try thinking of a race.

If the world champion runs against a national team it is easy to see who is the best, however, when he runs in a world championship then the gap is much more narrow. In the latter case only when someone performs exceptionally is his feat recognised as been substantially different.

Not a great analogy but it gets the point across. Considering I am tired it is the best you will get just now.

 

Im not trying to belittle them but to say they are the "best" troops in the world is I think a over statement. Soldiers (like I pointed out) from all ethnicity's if they have good drive can be just as good as Gurkha's. In WW2 in the Mediterranean Theater Axis troops were scared of them even tho most of them had never seen them.

Its good marketing as I see it, that doesnt mean that there not worthy of admiration.

Look at this, Africans seem to have great endurance and muscle strength, If you ever look at the Olympics some of the fastest of the runners are usually African.

I cant stress enough im not trying trying to be offensive to the Gurkhas......

I think it just matters on the type of person and there drive.

 

Again you are still missing the point, and i am not saying they are the best soldiers in the world, just that they are given their training by the best army in the world.

Haile Gebrselassie may well be a good runner but there is more to the fitness required to perform the duties of a soldier than just been able to run.

There are many other disciplines to be mastered.

I have known some very good runners but when you put weight on their backs they drop and others who cannot run but when given a weight to carry can go on for a long time.

I will not be making anymore post on this subject.

 

That's not what you originally said which was that the reason they were revered was down to good marketting.

You seem unwilling to alter your viewpoint, which is your perogative, but to be honest neither the British Army has any particular reason to "market" the Ghurkas from their outset (They'd have much preferred to have British regiments with that reputation) nor the Ghurkas themselves who are sadly neglected compared to their British infantry counterparts.

Africans may endure a harsh existence by western standards, but they are neither trained nor on the whole as dedicated soldiers from the start as the Ghurkas, in the Ghurkas their is a particular combination of lifelong hardship, fitness and dedication which is on the whole lacking in practically any other regular infantry regiment. Think I'm wrong? Point to a modern African Infantry Regiment that has anywhere near the reputation for being as professional and solid as the Ghurkas.

 

I don't think Revere has a point when he says the reputation of the Gurkhas is just a matter of good marketing, but there is some truth to the concept. Objectively speaking, there are very few instances in which the Spartans proved themselves stronger or more able than other hoplite armies of the Classical age in Greece. On the whole, they lost about as many wars as any other city-state. However, they did have a reputation for near invincibility, and this caused many armies to turn and run at the very appearance of Spartans on the battlefield. This reputation, then, was caused merely by good propaganda and the confidence it inspired in the Spartans themselves.

 

In a documentary I saw about the Gurkhas a while back their trainers spoke very highly of their personal qualities - for example - good concentration and attention span during training resulting in picking up complex tasks very quickly and retaining them - excellent and dedicated students in other words - very focused.