Best-looking guns?

That answered a bunch of old questions...Australians used the SLR in Vietnam.

 

Nice to see a name and face put to the swine.
Overdue a silly expensive soporifically detailed gun book purchase.
Something on that battle for the NATO rifle might just fit the bill.

 

What's the point of this set up?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2024037447610633

 

Because some people will buy anything if you call it "tactical." There's actually a couple of submachine guns out on the market with similar elements that make more sense. The stock depresses along the receiver cutting the length in half, and the magazine folds underneath locking up nicely, but still loaded. The folded mag doubles as a safety mechanism (since it is now at ninety degrees from the mag well) and the entire gun will then fit in a pouch in your kit bag, to be pulled out and armed in seconds. That's one of those things I've seen on Forgotten Weapons that made me think "That's just crazy enough to work."

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This Hotchkiss isn't the only folding SMG, but this is a good example of the type. They experimented with these for support troops and even paratroops. There's a certain attractiveness to a subgun that can be folded up and stuffed into a holster or kit bag.

 

One gun that I don't think has been mentioned is the Walther P-38! I consider it a much better design than the Colt 1911. It was the first double/single action pistol that was adopted by an army. Germany's of course, it replaced the Luger. It had several design features that carried over into post-war pistols. Much easier to break down for cleaning and much, much easier to re-assemble.

While we're at it, I'd nominate both the Model 71 and 1895 Winchesters-the best of the Winchester lever actions.

(Trivia question: Who bought most of the 1895 Winchesters?)

 

The Browning P35 was a far more practical sidearm than the P38. That initial DA pull on a Walther moves it into the realm of crew served weapons. I may be exaggerating there, but when you shoot one the initial DA trigger pull is so heavy the first shot is a waste of time. The Browning has all the advantages of the 1911, with even better ergonomics and a double column magazine. You've got a fairly crisp single action first pull, with 13 more rounds in the magazine waiting to go. Officially, you're supposed to keep the chamber empty with 12 rounds in the mag, but nobody did that with the 1911 and I doubt most people did that with the Browning. Draw, snick the safety off as as you level the gun then shoot away until the guy falls down. Nowadays, Brownings are available with 15 round mags, so you've got 15+1 on tap.

That 1895 Winchester was a hell of a gun. I think the Russians bought 300,000 of them, and liked them. I like to think that in some armory 300,000 1895s are waiting to be exported back to the US. They're in 7.62x54, but that wouldn't make me pause for a moment. I'd love to have a half dozen of them in the safe in case the Turks invade.

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Then you agree that the P-38 was better than the 1911? The P-38 was far easier to strip and re-assemble for cleaning than the 1911. The sights on the Walther were better and the double action allowed it to be carried with the safety off. If your hands were wet and/or muddy the safety on any pistol of the period could be problematic. Plus, under the stress of combat one could forget to take the safety off, which could be a very expensive mistake! The DA pull on the first shot wasn't conducive to target shooting but you could get a quick shot off which would be good enough at close range.The P 35 Hi-Power was a whole different animal. It was a simplified 1911 with more firepower. However, it had a weak point in that the internal extractor was somewhat weak and could break. That's why Browning/FN went to the external extractor.

 

Best LOOKING guns.
Harumph.
Etc.

Almost anything in a fitted box is good.

 

To KB: Just learned that production of the Hi Power has ceased and will not be resumed!

 

No. I disagree. The safety on a 1911 or P35 has never been an issue. The safety is in a perfectly ergonomic position, your thumb snicks it down as the gun comes to level. Been shooting them for 45 years and never missed the safety... The problem with the Walther safety/first shot is that as you draw and shoot you're pulling a ten or 12 pound trigger and slug is liable to go anywhere, except where you want it to go. The whole gun world went through fifty years of this. Let's have a safety and an accurate single action first shot. Then no, let's have a safety and a DA/SA configuration with a first shot that may go anywhere. Now we've come to the Glock (and clones). Glocks don't have safeties at all and they have a sort of miserable trigger that isn't as bad as the first shot DA/SA guns, but not as good as any of the triggers in the old SA guns.

I've had DA/SA guns - the CZ75 is better than any of them, but I still had that 12 pound first shot so I traded it away for something else. I carry a full sized 1911, a compact 1911, a micro 1911 (.380 Mustang) or a Browning P35 (depending on time of year and wardrobe). You couldn't talk me out of any of them. If I must use one, I may only get one shot and I want it to count.

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That’s some purty bullet launchers there!

 

I wouldn't ever try to talk you out of your 1911s since that's what you prefer. So be it. However, I carried a Walther PP for years (safety off) and never had a problem putting the first quick round on target. The next two would go into the head. I don't buy your "...slug is likely to go anywhere..." statement. It just takes practice in firing that first shot.

The problem is that we're kind of talking apples and oranges here. I'm thinking in a WW2 military situation and you seem to be thinking of contemporary 1911s which are a whole different animal than the G.I. issue 45. Given a WW2 situation:

1. The Walther breaks down easier for cleaning and reassembly. You don't have to worry about dropping and losing so many little parts like the plunger, bushing, springs etc. into the mud or having the plunger slip when you're reassembling it and having the plunger sail off god knows where.

2. The Walther's sights are easier to acquire and use.

3. The Walther is safer to carry in your hand with the safety off.

4. The Walther is lighter.

5. Given that most soldiers had little or no exposure to handguns before the service, the Walther, due to its lighter recoil, is easier to become proficient with.

Safeties are probably not an issue since in a military situation the user would probably have the safety off long before they really needed to use it.

 

I carry this WWI issue pistol regularly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've been there and done that. I've bought, shot then sold or traded more pistols than most people have handled in a gun store. I get them because of some "Gee Whiz" factor that catches my fancy, but it wears off and I go back to Browning. I actually favor the P35 over the 1911, but put me in a gun fight and I'd be happy to have either. I'd feel undergunned with anything less. You might tempt me with a vintage Colt or S&W that has been tuned by some master gunsmith, but other than that I want a Browning.

 

And then this...

 

KB,
I assume your 1911 has been reblued at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I've got both also. My car gun is a Ruger StSt commander length in 45. My Hi Power I don't shoot since it's NIB chambered for 30 luger.

Still, If I went back in time and was in the European campaign I'd try and get a P 38 with an adequate supply of ammo.

 

This 1911 was reblued as one of those duty guns to be carried after the 1911A1 came about. Many of the remaining 1911 guns were polished (they originally were parked) and became what the duty officer carried. The slide stop on this one was replaced with a colt part, other than that it's an all-matching armory (re)blued original. I wish I could find an original Remington UMC slide stop, but Remington only made a few guns and parts are hard to find.

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Since we are speaking of large bore Colt-Browning autos, I would like to register my vote for the Colt .38 Super. It had all the good features of the 1911 plus the round was very good, the gun had a great reputation for accuracy with the .38, and the mag held a little more ammo than the .45. This one was part of a small batch for US government contract in World War II. View attachment 28011 View attachment 28011

 

Thousands of .38 Supers were sold to Mexico. Some silly law prohibited military rounds, so instead of .45 or 9mm, Colt made the .38 Super for the Mexican market.

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