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LUFTWAFEE 1946 (Would Have Happened if ...)

Discussion in 'Alternate History' started by ww2archiver, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Just realiezed that if we applied this logic to pre cartridge long arms the "Brown Bess" would be considered the best of the bunch even if it was obsolescent by the mid 19th century.
     
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  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Apply the "logic" to the modern US Navy...

    The "best" warship in the US Navy is...

    [​IMG]
    She has five enemy warships to her credit - HMS HMS Guerriere, Java, Pictou, Cyane, and Levant.

    No other US Navy warship in commission has even sunk an enemy vessel.

    Makes you wonder why we are building these multi-billion white elephants, yet have not continued to build more Constitutions.

    Things that make you go "hmmmm."
     
  3. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    And its green friendly!
     
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  4. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    I believe that is the Mystic River Bridge in the background. At the other end off to the left was where the Chelsea Naval Hospital once stood. Lived in quarters there for a year when Himself was on Wasp operating out of South Boston Navy Yard. 1965-1966 . . . 8th grade . . . all the Navy kids rode a Navy bus that went from Southie to Charlestown to Chelsea and thence across town to Brookline to go to school and reverse in the afternoon.
     
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  5. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    I was not talking about just German planes, but all fighters of WW-II. Exchange ratio does not count at all because it is far to narrow because of all of the other things that cause huge disparities in K/L Ratios. For instance, in the BoB, the Germans lost more than they won, but by a narrow margin. ( 1.2/1) When the Brits flew similar missions across the Channel to France, they lost their collective butts by 5-7 to 1. That make the much vaunted Spitfire a huge looser and not even a close contender for best fighter plane of the war. Circumstances change the ratios dramatically. But the entire course of the war gives the whole picture.
     
  6. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Oh, jeezy pete. You have to go all the way back to August and post # 8 to restart you ME 109 dribble and ignore all your dashings into the dirt in between?

    Oh please, for God's sake, go pedal that stuff on a Wheraboo site where it will be appreciated. You have become a bore here.

    And no, dribble is not a typo for drivel.
     
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  7. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I've appropriately moved this to the Alternate History sub-forum.
     
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  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Makes me wonder if we should have a "misinterpreted history" forum.
     
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  9. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    So, by this info, we got our butts kicked? 15,754 wins Vs 18,754 losses and many times more crewmen due to the larger proportion of heavy, four engined bombers? The 109 must have been pretty good to cause such a large disparity?
     
  10. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    Well yes, on at least two counts. You have to add the effect of bombing the living crappola out of the planes on the ground and disrupting flight opps, thus limiting the numbers in the air to attack us and provide targets, but still we got out butts kicked.
     
  11. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    It is certainly one of the most beautiful! But how does it fair Vs Planes? If you want to twist logic that much, there is at least one current ship that has shot down at least one EA! WO the ability to down planes, it hardly seems the best, does it? But I still love it for it's time and like you said, contribution to the cause!
     
  12. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    How do I find this thread on the AltHist forum?
     
  13. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    Well, yes! It was faster to load than any rifle, more accurate than either the American, or French Musket. Deadlier and longer ranged due to it's larger ball and they were less expensive, so the cost per effect ratio was better.
     
  14. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    I am sorry about being away so long, but I have had some health and family issues to deal with. The debate about what is the best fighter plane was long and heated, but still unresolved. I have failed to convince some here as to the worth of my argument.
    One point I'd like to mention has pictures of both a Spit and 109 in the same frame in a Right Bank and nose to tail at about the same range. The difference in Aspect Ratio clearly shows why one is easier to spot than the other. Most of the rationalizations posted to date have failed to understand the how and why it is so important. More later after dinner, because I have to dash!
     
  15. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    To quote R Leonard, "oh jeezy pete", but you seriously have problems analyzing data.
     
  16. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Ummm...Hold on Shooterike...You didn't deduct losses to flak or losses to other causes...So it's 15,754 wins to 6,311 losses.

    So, you are saying that this large disparity is because the 109 was such an awful fighter. Well then, I can accept that.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Planes? It is made of radar-absorbent/non-reflective material, has no IR signature. and is wakeless...Modern planes will never notice that it is there.


    No US Navy warship, now in commission, has shot down an enemy aircraft. The last one was the USS Vincennes which shot down the Iranian air liner.

    Weeellllll now! Let's Twist Again!


    Since, we are twisting again, you just shot to hell your own argument.

    The Me-109 never sank any warships...the F4F sank warships, the F6F sank warships, the F4U sank warships, the 109 hardly seems the best, does it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I will see you sir, and raise you one.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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  20. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    "Who's that flying up there? Is it a BIRD? NO! Is it a PLANE? NO! because the Me109 has the smallest cross section and is not visible from the ground! Is it the TWISTER? YEEAAHHHH!" Twist again, like we did last summer!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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