Mailly-le-camp may 1944

Hello!

Just wondering after having read in the " Hell of a bomb" that this area was not only the training area but also depot for the 21st panzer division. It was bombed with heavy losses for the Germans during spring ( May?) 1944.

As we know this division was one of the first to enter battle in the Normandy area.

How big losses did the division take and can it be estimated how much the bombing affected the division´s fighting capability for the following months, especially the invasion as many veteran soldiers were lost ( according to the text ) ?

Thanx for any info!

 

218 were killed or missing, 156 wounded ; mainly NCOs. 102 vehicles were destroyed, including 37 tanks. All buildings in the camp - barracks, messes,workshops and offices, were destroyed ( 80% ) or badly damaged ( the rest ).

There is a very good book devoted entirely to this one raid - Jack Currie's 'Battle Under The Moon' ( Air Data Publications, 1995 ). It's subtitled 'The documented account of Mailly-le-Camp, 1944' and I highly recommend it !

 

Mailly Le Camp (May 3/4 1944) was also an operation where many Bomber Command Lancasters were lost. 12 Squadron, 50 Squadron, 101 Squadron each lost 4 crews, 460 Squadron lost 6 crews in a few minutes. I have met some Mailly survivors last year, they told me they remember their comrades "falling like flies". I believe 43 crews were lost most Lancaster had a crew of seven, 101 flew with eight man so it was a high toll to pay. Some evaded, some were taken pow, but the large majority of those guys were killed in the crash of their Lanc.

 

Thanx for the info guys!

were the losses due to AA or night fighter activity, Skipper? I suspect the latter but do not know...

 

Well I have 44 claims from Luftwaffe nightfighters on the Maily route. Some are overclaimed, but not that many and the figure almost fits with the loss figure. I don't know about AA losses .
The units who claimed kills are NJG4, NJG5, NJG1 and SKG10. SKG10 was a rather original unit that would be sent wherever needed to fill the gaps.
There were many aces among the flyers who claimed viermots that night (Drewes, Schauss, Kolak, Bergmann, Krause, Hoffmann )
Drewes got 4 kills , Bergmann got five of them.

 

AFAIK, all losses were due to the Luftwaffe. It was one of those nights, like Nuremburg, where the RAF 'got it all wrong' and the Nachtjagd didn't.....

 

Especially when you take the casualties. 43 Raf crews mostly KIA. That exceeds the german casualties, not to mention that 43 Lancs were written off. There are yearly commemorations there and the local population is very devoted and grateful and the graves are well tended. 101 Squadron sends a veteran delegation every May 3rd. There are also other rather unusual tributes to be found here and there:if some of you have a chance to go to the Caen memorial, there is a beautiful wedding dress displayed, made with the parachute silk of one of the Mailly evaders. I forgot the name of the man who it belonged to, but I can look up my files.

 

actually there were 39 kills, BErgmann got 6 and Drewes got 5 maybe ....... Krause whomever got 0

tony woods listing is incorrect.

wait for Boitens effort this upcoming spring as the raid will be covered and the details worked out

Hoffmann got 2 and the CO of NJG 5 Walter Borchers got 3 an ace that is nearly unknown but accomplished as one of the best Nachtjägers

 

Almost off-topic, but this gives me a chance to resurrect an old subject....forum veterans may ( just ) remember me posting some years ago - in the days before I had a digital camera - about an e-bay purchase of a Bomber Command lot consisting of original Pathfinder badge, Navigator's Brevet and hand-embroidered scarf listing 28 operations from 1943/44.

The 28th and last operation, and marked with a circled number, is Mailly-le-Camp....




I still wonder...is the scarf a POW memento of a Navigator shot down over Mailly ? Or was he badly wounded and could take part in no further operations ?

The scarf isn't talking.

 

Erich, When I said 43 losses, I meant "written off" not "kills" . For instance Lancaster ME703 from 576 Squadron managed to fly home, but forcedlanded and the Lanc was destroyed beyond repair. (one casualty among the crew). I don't know if you include this lanc in your figure.
I knew Borchers flew with NJG5 at Athies, but I wasn't aware that he got kills that night.
My sources are among others W R Chorley and Foreman, not Tony Wood. I shall wait for Boitens new book.
Martin, your scarf is a very nice relic, very moving if it did belong to one of the men mentionned in this topic.

 

Skipper, throw Foremans book away and should be replaced by Boitens work. Chorleys has mistakes as well but what doens't .........

until I have all the info from Boiten I am sticking by straight away from the Freiburg action kills listing printed via from that archiv of course with gaps and errors

 

Martin,

Re your scarf:

There were only two Pathfinder losses on the Mailly Raid, Those being JB402 from 83 Sqdn, all survived and ND406 from 97 Sqdn, all killed.

..... Therefore .... some research into the ORBs of those two Squadrons may put a name to your scarf, by going back thru the previous missions and seeing who flew where.

I take it as given that you have Chorleys works?

Robin www.156Squadron

 

As I told earlier I will be waiting for Boiten's work. You got me curious about Borchers Erich.

Martin and robin, JB502 had five evaders and two pows and crashed near the target. This means that the scarf could come from the navigator of this aircraft (the nd Navigator was pow, so I doubt he kept his scarf). ND 706 crashed on the way back, south of Paris. It is possible that a scarf was found by a local, but I doubt it survived an explosion. Therfore I will focuss on the JB 502 crew.

 

Wow!

Maybe the owner of the scarf can be traced back in time...of course not 100% but close...

 

"Strike & Return", the history of 460 RAAF Sqn only shows 5 losses for that raid.

The Pilots were:
P/O MDL Lloyd (Killed)
P/O FW Baker (Killed)
W/O JW Smart (KIlled)
F/Sgt GK Gritty (Killed)
F/Sgt HJ Fry (Killed)
(Their crews arent listed but could include:
Sgt K Applegarth, F/Sgt GC Barber, F/Sgt BR Barr, Sgt HP Black, Sgt Chandler, F/Fgt WR Elgar,Sgt PD Fry, Sgt CG Graham, F/Sgt RH Hobbs, Sgt JH Holloway, Sgt RA Johnson, Sgt WB Martin, Sgt WC Maxwell, Sgt AR Moore, Sgt FF Naismith, Sgt GE O'Neill, Sgt T Oulton, Sgt JW Ranger, Sgt SP Russell, F/O L Simmer, F/Sgt EF Stannet, P/O WH Thomson, P/O JG Turnbull, Sgt LR Vale, F/Sgt GR Warnock, Sgt TS Winstanley, F/Sgt BT Wootton-Wooley.

Not 5 full crews, I'm unsure if the list is incomplete or that some managed to escape from their aircraft.

Gritty, Baker & Lloyd were on thier first op.

 

Many thanks indeed for the leads, Robin. As usual, nothing ( in research ) is as simple as it looks My 'man' also went to Peenemunde which was only raided once by Bomber Command, and the Navigator of JB402 isn't listed in Searby's 'Great Riads - Peenemunde' ( I went down this route a few years ago )....which is what makes me wonder if he came back wounded, thus ending his tour early at 28 operations.

( The items came from a house clearance in Cambridgeshire and had been 'sold on', so I couldn't ascertain the name when I bought it on e-bay ).

( PS : I've bumped up my old thread on the 'MILITARIA' sectio nwhich details the scarf and all the raids shown..... )

 

Martin

Enough secrecy!

Can you post the missions named on the scarf in the order that they are embroidered (appear) so that we can ALL have a go at solving this mystery

Regards

Robin

 

P.S.

Remember that Pathfinder crews had TWO Navigators!

Robin www.156Squadron.com

 

OK - here's the full listing again : -

http://www.ww2forums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=000363;p=1#000006

 

ok next try then: if it wasn't the navigator from Jb402 ( not jb502), what about his nd Navigator? F/L TINDALL DFM was taken pow and could have bailed out with his scarf and lost it or have it confiscated)The DFM may give you more info it was gazetted on july 18 1941. He came from 58 Squadron .
Two other possibilities: there were two Navigators in ND406 (both killed).