Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

A Thunder Run is just reinventing the wheel

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Fatboy Coxy, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Fatboy Coxy

    Fatboy Coxy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    6
    Hi all, I watched a video on YouTube, see called
    "Thunder Runs: Analyzing Ukraine's Devastating New Tactic" by Warographics. Its quite a good video, I enjoyed watching it, but I did take umbrage with its spin on the tactic, suggesting this was a US Army initiative from Iraq, April 2003, that the Ukrainians had borrowed.

    I see a "Thunder Run" merely as the natural exploitation an army should do, if it has the capacity, once it's penetrated the enemy's defensive line. Surely its no different to Germany's Blitzkrieg in France 1940, Japans advance down Malaya in 1941/42, Patton's Third Army breakout of Normandy in 1944, to quote just a few from WW2. Indeed this tactic has been going on in time immemorial, no doubt we could find examples in WW1, the US Civil War, and indeed going back as far as Alexander the Great. What I would give the US Army credit for in 2003, and the Ukrainians in 2022, is rejigging the tactic to work with the forces and equipment of their time, putting the old practice into play, in a modern context.
     
    Fatboy Coxy, Dec 12, 2022
    #1
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,968
    Pieper's Thunder Run in Dec. 1944 was the earliest I remember. No doubt there's more earlier.
     
    OpanaPointer, Dec 12, 2022
    #2
    George Patton likes this.
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,104
    Likes Received:
    2,576
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    The tactic is much more complicated in modern times. Swords did not require ammunition(except for archers) & horses, elephants & mules just need food & water(foraged locally). Done today, much more needs to come together, then back then. The armored spearhead (EDIT - in Iraq) came very close to having to pull back for lack of supply(a matter of hours, as I recall).
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
    Takao, Dec 12, 2022
    #3
    USMCPrice likes this.
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10,251
    Likes Received:
    3,470
    Blitzkrieg - Thunder run - Shock and awe....

    My two cents.

    Small scale attacks use "shock troops" - or "Storm troopers" - Quick and overwhelming (ideally - but most shock troops like Marines - are regularly miss used as regular fighters.)
    Blitzkrieg is a whole of military tactic, using all arms against usually an entire country.
     
    CAC, Dec 14, 2022
    #4
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,104
    Likes Received:
    2,576
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Thunder Run = Reconnaissance In Force
     
    Takao, Dec 14, 2022
    #5
    CAC likes this.
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    5,968
    I spent as much time on morale as I did on my main business back in the day. "Thunder Run" is hype that troops buy into to make them feel like "we ain't gonna die today." Often that's true.
     
    OpanaPointer, Dec 14, 2022
    #6
    Biak and CAC like this.
  7. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    Perusing the Goggle it appears as per usual military nomenclature there's more than one "Thunder Run" meaning.


    "
    Communist forces, knowing that Highway 19 was the road used by U.S. and ARVN supply convoys, would take to mining the road, cutting off supplies to other areas critical to American war plans, especially the city of Pleiku.

    And to expedite the de-mining of the road, the 11th Armored Cavalry devised a faster means of clearing mines: the Thunder Run.

    Two M48 Patton tanks would go down either side of the road, headed in the same direction. With one track on the road and the other track on the shoulder, the tanks quickly drove to a predetermined point in the road, all guns blazing. If they didn't hit a mine, the road was considered clear.

    If the Pattons did hit a mine, the damage was considered minimal. If they had to stop at all, it was only to replace one or two wheels along the tank's tracks. It was much faster than spending all day waiting for a handful of soldiers to clear the stretch of road.

    The tanks were used on all-night road marches, using the main turrets and the machine guns aboard the tank. This also triggered any preset ambushes along the roads. Highway 13 from Phu Cuong to Loc Ninh even became known as "Thunder Road" because of the frequency of the tactic used to trigger night ambushes.

    While the U.S. Army's 2002 report on Mounted Combat in Vietnam acknowledged the mileage and strain put on the M48 tanks from the use of Thunder Run tactics, it was considered indispensable to saving infantrymen from mines and ambush tactics along the highways.

    The Original 'Thunder Run' Was a Way to Clear Minefields
     
    Biak, Dec 14, 2022
    #7

Share This Page