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If Operation Barbarossa was delayed (opinion)

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Eastern Front & Balka' started by JZResearch, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    So you're a Suvorov fan? :D
     
  2. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    You have lost me on your quote, anyway back to the topic, Stalin ordered the Red Army to the west in a massive build up of troops, this was obvious to Hitler and his Generals, they were told by Army intelligence that The Red Army was going invade sometime in July. That is why the Germans captured so many Soviet POW's 3,500,000 of them. Operation Barbarossa could not be delayed any further.
     
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  3. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but Viktor Suvorov is the author of Icebreaker, which first promulgated the mostly discredited idea that Stalin was preparing a major attack on Germany in summer 1941 and BARBAROSSA only forestalled it. Problematically there are no original sources that support the theory. There is no documentation showing "Stalin ordered the Red Army to the west in a massive build up of troops" or that such a non-event was "obvious to Hitler and his Generals". Nor did German "Army intelligence" ever assess the "Red Army was going invade sometime in July". The Germans did not capture so many Soviet POW because the Soviets were going to invade in July, That is false syllogism. The Germans captured Soviet POW because of German operational success and the desperate attempts by the Soviets to stop them by feeding more troops into the battle.

    BTW, it was 3,3-million Soviets captured, plus about 50,000 by the Finns.
     
  4. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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  5. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    I have the feeling that all those Soviet Troops on their western front suddenly sprang up from the ground overnight, and assume that Stalin knew nothing about those troops is bloody minded stupidity. I have watched countless documentaries on the lead up to Barbarossa, and all say that Stalin was preparing to invade the west around July 1941. If I were to choose who to believe, you or researched documenterists, I back the documentaries all the way. I hate to say this but you ain't perfect.
     
  6. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    All what troops on the western front? Total Soviet forces as of 22 June 1941 were 27 Army HQs, 62 Rifle Corps HQs, 29 Mechanized Corps HQs, 4 Cavalry Corps HQs, and 5 Airborne Corps HQs with 304 divisions: 179 rifle divisions, 19 mountain rifle divisions, 61 tank divisions, 31 mechanized divisions, 9 cavalry divisions, 4 mountain cavalry divisions, and 1 NKVD motorized division. There were approximately 5 448 000 personnel in total. Includes: 4 553 000 in Red Army, NKVD and PVO forces. 476 000 in the Air Force. 344 000 in the Navy. 74 945 servicemen and military construction workers serving in formations which came under civilian departments.

    Of those, 21 army HQs, 48 rifle corps HQs, 25 mechanized corps HQs, and 3 cavalry corps HQs with 228 divisions: 138 rifle divisions, 7 mountain rifle divisions, 50 tank divisions, 25 mechanized divisions, 7 cavalry divisions, and 1 NKVD motorized rifle division and 3 310 419 personnel were distributed throughout the western military districts.

    That was the peacetime, not mobilized army of the Soviet Union. Nearly 40 percent of it was no where near the western borders. No mobilization was underway. After 22 June to 31 December 1941, the Soviets mobilized its forces: 11 front HQs, 41 army HQs, 182 rifle divisions, 43 militia rifle divisions, 8 tank divisions, 3 mechanized divisions, 62 tank brigades, 55 rifle brigades, 50 cavalry divisions, 1 mountain cavalry division, 1 mountain rifle division, 31 airborne brigades, 11 naval infantry brigades, 21 naval rifle brigades, 3 NKVD rifle divisions, 3 NKVD motorized rifle divisions.

    In other words, the Soviets were apparently preparing to attack Germany with about two-thirds of its forces no where near its western borders and not mobilized.

    BTW, if all you can argue is ad homonem, why don't you just go back to watching YouTube.
     
  7. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    I bow down to the master, you are correct Stalin was never going to invade the west under any circumstance.
     

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