141 Royal Armoured Corps (The Buffs) Churchill Crocodiles

My grandad sergeant Bob little won the MM at cormelles. I have a copy of his citation on the wall in my house

 

Hello,

My Grandfather who passed away just a few days ago served in 141 RAC.

He didn’t talk much about his service until the last couple of decades when he occasionally discussed some of his memories with certain members of the family.

His details - 14331072 Tpr Stanley Charles Sutton. 141RAC, C Sqn, 11Tp.

I’d be interested to know if there are any further details of his service, and also if there are any other surviving members of 141?

 

Richard,

Very sorry to hear your sad news, I hope you managed to get to listen to some of his recollections over those years. Here is a little extra information on your grandfather's service. He was on the nominal roll for 25 April 1944 which confirms he was with the regiment before Normandy but he's not on the transfer list from 7th Bn Buffs in 1941. His trade is noted as Gunner Mechanic but I don't have a note of what position in the tank he served in, did he ever say what his job in the tank was? He left the regiment in September 1945 in a tranche of men that were posted to the Royal Scots Greys to complete their service before being demobbed.

Unfortunately no-one wrote a history for C Sqn but one man who served in the sqn published his memoir - In At The Finish, North West Europe 1944/45 by J G Smith, he served in 13 Tp. It's a rare one to get hold of but does come up on Abe and eBay.

A book that is easy to get hold of is the 79th Armoured Division history - The Story of 79th Armoured Division, October 1942 - June 1945, 141RAC features a lot in the narrative. I'd fully recommend getting an original copy rather than one of the reprints if you can, it's the same volume your grandfather would have got if he bought one in 1945, it was a hardback with a dust jacket and it regularly comes up on Abe and eBay.

John

 

John,

Thank you for your reply. I did indeed manage to listen to some of the stories over the years, although it’s quite likely he kept the most harrowing memories from us all.

I remember him telling me not so long ago that he was a radio operator in the tank, although was trained in all roles.

It’s interesting you’ve mentioned the Royal Scots Greys, I don’t think any of the family were aware of that although he did tell us after the war he was mainly travelling around Europe with the military band (although we’re not sure which one that would have been).

Is it likely to be just clerical error that he’s not on the transfer list in 1941?

Also, thank you for your book recommendations- I will look out for those. I printed a copy of Capt Harry Bailey’s ‘In All Innocence’ a couple of years ago and he remembered a few of the names and events mentioned in there.

Richard

 

Richard,

Indeed, that was very much the way of that generation, not even many memoirs venture into those darker memories.

Once the war was over and the men were being demobbed, especially once the threat of transfer to the Japanese theatre was over, men in regular regiments were naturally on the demob roster but since those regiments would continue to exist after the war they transferred in men from wartime raised regiments, such as 141RAC, to fill the ranks and keep those regular units at a functioning level. Men from 141RAC went to many different regiments, the Greys being a common destination. Whether he was in the Greys' band or moved on from them can't be determined from the 141RAC war diary. But, if you contact the archives at the Tank Museum (open again from next week) and send a request to see a copy of the TRACER card for your grandfather that will give you the basic info on his regimental service.

It could be a clerical error he's not on that list, do you know he was in the 7th Bn Buffs in 1941? Or it could be he joined in 42 or 43. The TRACER card should answer that and may also give a clue to his band playing.

John

 

This thread is pretty dormant but hopefully some of you knowledgeable ladies and gents still keep an eye on proceedings.

I have been trying to piece together my late father’s war journey so any snippets of information would be very gratefully received. The Tank Museum at Bovington was very good, providing a copy of his ‘Tracer’ card and copies of various war diaries. I have also requested copies of his MOD war/personnel records but 8 months on I am still waiting - “in the queue” apparently!

The bits I do know are as follows. My father’s name was Peter James Goodwin (Army no. 14324975), he was called up in November 1942 and transferred from the General Service Corps to the 141st (Buffs) on 29th. May 1943. He stayed with the Crocs through the war before getting transferred to the Royal Scots Greys 16th. November 1945. It seems that he was trained as a driver and wireless operator.

What I can’t find is any reference to a particular tank, troop or even squadron. I know one of the other crew in his tank was Harry Cherrington and I also know that Andrew Wilson (author of Flamethrower) knew him as “Blondie” - my father was blond haired. What I don’t know is whether Andrew Wilson and my father were in combat together or whether they met in training, so it doesn’t really help in working out his squadron or troop.

If anyone can add any further information or provide any other other research ideas I would be very grateful. I’m hoping to put the story together and create a history pack for my grandchildren to keep.

 

Steve,

Your father served in C Sqn but sadly, troop and crew info is pretty sparse for C Sqn, and A Sqn. His fellow crewman you mention was known as 'Cherry' and there is another name that is linked to this crew - Bill Hodgson. I can't say what their crew positions were I'm afraid. Andrew Wilson served in both C Sqn and A Sqn. His active service was with A Sqn so on the balance of probability he knew your father during training at Eastwell Park which is where your father would have joined the Regiment.

There is no Sqn history for C Sqn but one chap did write a memoir - In At the Finish by John G Smith, well worth getting a copy if you can. (If you would like to email me via the address on this page - Tank Factory - Contact - I can send some extra bits and bobs.)

Good luck with your research, what a great idea to create a 'history pack.'

John

 

John,

Many, many thanks for the information. Just having the squadron confirmed as ‘C’ feels like a big step forward and narrows the options when plotting his journey through Europe. Bill Hodgson is a new name to me but my father’s sister is still alive so I will be checking in with her to see if the name rings any bells.

I have recently acquired, but haven’t yet read, a copy of ‘In At The Finish’. It will be even more relevant now.

My father did have a personal copy of ‘Flamethrower’, obtained direct from Andrew Wilson, but a work colleague of my brother borrowed it and then disappeared. Somewhere out there someone has a copy of this book which is personally signed off by the author to “Blondie”. Naturally, there was a great sentimental attachment to this copy so if anyone reading this is aware of it…….. the family would like it back, please! Happy to pay or swap for an unsigned copy.

Thank you again John, for filling in another gap. Looking back the temptation is to wish that I had asked him a lot more questions when he was alive about his service but the reality was that he would never talk about it. Like so many I guess.

Steve