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2 killed filming M-18

Discussion in 'Military Vehicle Restoration' started by bronk7, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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  2. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I wouldn't expect a journalist to get anything right in a story like this. Tank destroyers were sometimes used as artillery - shooting anti-personnel rounds, so maybe they were shooting an AP round and that confused the writer. The three inch towed tank destroyer guns actually trained to shoot as back-up artillery in England prior to D-Day. It was found to be ineffective in actual combat. At any rate, if you're shooting at an actual line of sight target, I don't think it's technically "artillery" no matter what's coming out of the barrel.

    It would be interesting to get a follow-up on this to see if it was due to an actual breach failure or somebody opening the breach prematurely on a faulty round.
     
  3. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Sad story. These two men were said to have shot rounds numerous times from the M18. Wonder what went wrong. Tragic nonetheless.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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    where do you get WW2 M 18 ammo?....
     
  5. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow Patron  

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    This is a sad story. Condolences to their families and friends.

    The second link (the oregonlive.com story) is a much better than the Yahoo/Reuters story. It also has a slide show of Preston with his TD and his rather impressive militaria collection.
     
  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The actual 76mm casings are plentiful, but not cheap. There are companies that turn aluminum shells in all sizes for people who own various big guns, so they may have been shooting something like that. It's just like reloading rifle rounds, but I can't imagine what a press and dies that size would look like! I haven't seen ads for the primers, so I don't where they come from, but they're out there somewhere. You can even buy loaded vintage artillery rounds, but each one requires a class three "destructive device" stamp that takes up to a year to get cleared by ATF and are extremely expensive.
     
  7. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    A sad day.

    When people fire antique anti-tank guns where does the ammunition come from? Are these made to the original ammunition specification or is some alternative made up?

    I wonder how many rounds the M18 was designed for fire and what proofing is needed for antique artillery pieces.
     
  8. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    See post #6.
     
  9. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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    much thanks....I was thinking they would be hard to get.....
     
  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    It's kind of a mini-industry for the people that have such guns. There's a few guys around that turn out the actual projectiles on a lathe from an aluminum billet. I suppose you'd use a pretty light charge for such a light projectile, so pretty safe. If you peruse YouTube you'll be surprised at how many people have big guns like that and shoot them.
     
  11. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Can one assume that HE shells are not made and/or are illegal?
     
  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    No, they are not made for civilian use, but military shells are out there in civilian hands and can be purchased or transferred through Class 3 dealers. ATF designates these as Class 3 "destructive devices" and you have to go through the same system as buying a full auto weapon. They actually have a list you can pull up with the different weapons under the Class 3 designation - full auto weapons, suppressors, short barreled rifles, etc. Destructive Devices include things like grenades and explosive shells of one kind or another, and the mortars, howitzers, whatever that shoot them.

    Most people just use the turned aluminum projectiles which you can buy and load for yourself at far less cost. You don't need a "Stamp" for such projectiles, though you do need one for whatever big gun shoots them.
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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    that's what I thought

    much thanks ..! I thought it would be illegal to shoot any cannon, big gun, etc, and sell the ammo, etc..very interesting....seems like prices would be high and hard to find..I just tried to search for some, hard to find....so people just load them themselves?? sorry if I sound confused, but I am....
     
  14. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Well, you'd have to be a guy with a lot of money to buy a working AT gun or something like that in the first place. Up until 1986 you could import such things (and the ammo), from anywhere and the US had sold surplus artillery and ammo all over the world so there was plenty be had, as long as you were a Class 3 licensed dealer. Then you could sell to any customer who went through the ATF paperwork circus to get the tax stamp - just like buying silencers or full auto weapons. In 1986 they passed the "FOPA" law that stopped further importation, but in the months before it went into effect, they went nuts importing stockpiles of various weapons and ammo. You could sell what you had, but couldn't import any more. So, as the years pass and the supply dwindles, the cost goes up. There are still tons of it around, but you have to license and register each individual shell just as if you are buying a machine gun. It's expensive and tedious.

    That's where the reloaders come in. You don't have to monkey around with the ATF stamps or any of that, except for the gun itself. You buy cases, use commercial reloading powders and stick an aluminum projectile in the top. It's still not cheap, but you can shoot your big gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMm-k26qMaA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utaE6cRcgzY
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    The range used for the 37mm looks mighty familiar....

    Yeah, it is the same one used by fpsrussia
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSp7CipN1pw
     
  16. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Range? I thought they were deer hunting...
     
  17. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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    much thanks your replies, and info on buying the rounds, etc...very interesting...as you can tell, I had no knowledge at all on the subject...and the videos bring WW2 a little closer by showing it in clear, detailed views...
     
  18. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    Presumably this is the M18?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxN0WfFKLRU

    though this looks rather fun.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzdQq1YwE0A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moIH5oVdI2I

    But these old ordnance are being fired with a fuse or long lanyard.
     
  19. Dave55

    Dave55 Member Patron  

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    What the heck happened when they fired the 8 incher? The video doesn't give any info on what went wrong. Was the breach not locked?
     
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    They're using an inoperable "demilled" gun with black powder so they don't have to go through the ATF nonsense. If they actually restored it with an original breech, they'd have to jump through all the ATF hoops to build a Class 3 "Destructive Device." So, it looks like they've done a garage mechanic job to put some sort of home-made breech on there that obviously wasn't strong enough for even black powder.

    Black powder cannons of all sizes are perfectly legal without any ATF nonsense. You can buy them on the Internet and have them shipped to your front door.
     

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