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2017 Westminster Terror Attack

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by O.M.A., Jun 7, 2017.

  1. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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  2. Mutley

    Mutley Active Member

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  3. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    I don't think anyone is saying Moslems invented terrorism, just that they seem to be the most prevalent adopters these days.

    What an odd rebuttal to to a question that was never asked. Does it even matter who started doing it?

    The logic in these circles never ceases to surprise me. A man in London uses a vehicle to grind up some innocent women & men. It was obviously caused by the Crusades? WTF?

    :wtfslide::wtfslide::wtfslide:
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Since I don't think I've seen this stated clearer or better I'm quoting it for emphasis.
    Where one stops when tracing such reasoning can also be illuminating.
     
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    One of the better known statements in the Qur'an is:

    Allah's Messenger said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."

    Allah's Messenger (Muhammad) took part in 27 military expeditions against his perceived enemies, he personally fought in nine major battles - this is why he says I have been made victorious with terror.
    He certainly was not like the "turn to them the other cheek" Jesus, he was a warrior and those people are his warriors too.


    If we follow the rules of interpretation developed from the classical science of Koranic interpretation, it is not possible to condemn terrorism in religious terms. It remains completely true to the classical rules in its evolution of sanctity for its own justification. This is where the secret of its theological strength lies.
    Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Deuteronomy
    Chapter 2
    32-37

    And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us


    Deuteronomy
    Chapter 3
    1-7

    1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. 7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.


    Joshua
    Chapter 10

    28-43


    28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29 Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho. 31 And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah. 33 Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining. 34 And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it: 35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish. 36 And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it: 37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. 38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it: 39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king. 40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. 41 And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. 42 And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel. 43 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.



    I believe you were saying something about turning the other cheek...
     
  7. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but that is an argument from ignorance.

    The Old Testament is written history. It describes the events as they happened - with many fantasies included, and that's all. In this case it's just a story of some guy named Joshua.

    The Christians aren't followers of Joshua but Jesus. And similarly the Jews aren't followers of Joshua but numerous their prophets (who came after Joshua - the Old Testament is mainly dedicated to them) and rabbis (masters).

    It's completely impossible for a Christian or a Jew to say "I will be successful with terror" without rolling back 2000 (Christian) or 2500 (Jewish) history.
    For a Muslim it's possible and the statement can't be condemn in their religious terms.

    What Are the Main Differences Between Islam and Christianity?
     
  8. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    Everyone quotes the Koran, but it's the Hadith/Sunna where the problems really lie. The worst of it all is in the Bukhari.
     
  9. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    FWIW, I care not what is necessarily in the books, it's how many people commit violence in the name of that book that matters. If one cannot identify that one faith has a larger problem than others in this area, then I'm not sure what to say.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    History rolled back...
    Jewish:
    Ahhh, yes. More fantasy. Do the names Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, and Palmach ring any bells? Guess not...and that is only rolling back about 70 years of Jewish history, not 2,500...You also apparently have not heard of the Jewish Defense League

    As for Christians...
    Here are 8 Christian Terrorist Organizations That Equal ISIS

    So much for impossible...
     
  11. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Several of those aren't really "Christian" organizations though are they? What's more it's pretty clear that such conduct is contrary to the teachings of Christ so in a sense none of them are.
     
  13. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    Apparently, there are 8 organizations that are just as bad as ISIS? By this logic, they must then perpetrate 8 times as much violence as ISIS? I wonder how many "Christian" Camp Speicher level atrocities there were in the last few years?
     
  14. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Irgun, Lehi, Haganah were nationalistic not religious groups. They fought for Israel not God.
    Actually the religious Jews were mostly against them, they were saying the Jews should have put faith in God, not guns or taken by force land.
    The rest are just some degenerate cases of small groups nobody ever heard of. KKK was a bunch of vigilantes of local significance not a terrorist group threatening major Western cities.


    The point is Christianity/Judaism is a positive force in the modern world, a force that seriously contributes to its stability.
    Sharia and Islam are not, almost every Muslim country is unstable and/or sinking deeper into Sharia.

    So the real question is why are the Western countries importing so many and so dissimilar people, wasting their resources and subverting their own stability.
    If they want immigrants millions of them are available from their own culture sphere.

    In the end it's an exercise in country-wide virtue signaling, that we are not racist.
    But they can't be racist because they don't own anything foreigners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  15. wooley12

    wooley12 Active Member

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    My immigrant, Catholic, union member dad shared a foxhole n Italy with a KKK member.
     
  16. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    I once stood in line at a gas station with a Klan member behind me and a African-American in front of me about as meaningless an event as your fathers.
     
  17. wooley12

    wooley12 Active Member

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    You are certainly free to judge you. And have an opinion about the social situation of America and Oregon in the 1930's. I'll stand by my research and life experiences with racists and bigots. Now where to post my research here?
     
  18. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    I hope the KKK member wasn't too bothered with sitting in a foxhole with a person you claim is a terrorist.

    In 1988 I saw a racist guy eating a cheeseburger, I've not eaten burgers since. Anecdotal evidence is the refuge of a small mind.
     
  19. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Wonder what this year's current tally is-
    May 27 to June 24.
    Considering there are still 10 days left- who knows, it could be a record year.
    Wonder when the evil Christians' most deadly month is. So i can try to post an equally offensive statistic with which to balance the seemingly overwhelming evidence of...you know.
    Words / actions.
    Blunt Force Truth
     
  20. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Ramadan Bombathon - people warned it would happen.
    But what happened in London was nothing, the real carnage is going on in Muslim countries, your media mostly don't report it - just quarrels in far away countries between people of whom we know nothing...
     

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