33 dead....

33 dead in Virginia shootings

A US shooting rampage at the Virginia Tech university has left 33 people, including a suspected gunman, dead.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm?ls

 

A sad part of American life. It is easier to get guns and drugs than it is to get a job that pays enough to live on.

 

Really sad. During my work I have always been astonished why people, if they decide to die by their own hand, must take someone with them, or like in this case, many other people. Would it not be ok just to leave this planet on your own, but no, they take their kidz, neighbours, studying friends etc with them.

And besides there´s plenty of time to be on the other side so let´s enjoy as long as we can over here!

 

I read that the Campus director hesitated to alert the whole campus after the 2 first kills and this allowed the killer to shoot 30 more victims in another building.

 

It does not surprise me that something like this would happen in a society where kids are allowed to vent their anger on games where killing is the goal. What do we expect when we let the TV be the baby sitter and there is nothing but violence and sex for them to watch. We are creating a society of youth that are immune to violence and gore. Where else in the world does this happen recurringly? Where else in the world are morals going down the drain? We reap what we sow and America is going down the sewer because of its degenerate lifestyle.

I mourn for the lost souls and pray for their families. Something must be done before it is too late.

There, I am now off my soapbox.

 

I strongly have to disagree with you on that. TV and video-games don't make people go around and shoot people. Based on the amount of people who do play video games, there'd be some sort of civil-war in the country since a million people would be running around killing people. I think its ridicolous when people or the media try to attribute deaths because TV/MUSIC/GAMES encourage violence. Thats obviously not the case because i love war movies, i play tons of games where shooting is involved, yet i dont go around shooting people.

The kid probably broke up with his GF for some reason (he shot two girls in a dorm in the morning) and probably failed out of the engineering school (i think thats where he went a few hours later to start to shoot it up, or perhaps the girl had cheated on him with some one from that department) so he decided to exact some revenge. I also think this week is Columbine Anniversary too.

I think the school might be facing a few lawsuits since they didnt shut the school down after the first shooting. They only managed to send out a mass email around the time of the 2nd shooting a few hours later. Especially since no suspect had been apprehended. The fact that they believed the shooter had left campus is a little sketchy to me. if you dont know who did it how do you know they left campus?

Still, i think this country really needs to look at its gun laws and make them a lot stricter. The columbine kids went to a gun show to buy the guns, but weren't 18. The guy wouldnt sell it to them. So they got a girl friend of theres to go and buy them for them. The guy knew she was buying the guns for the underaged kids but still sold the guns.

 

Yes I will have to agree with Mussolini, the blame should not be placed on video games, TV or Music..... The gun laws are whats the problem. It is easier to get a gun in the U.S. then in any other country with the obvious exception of African countries and the Middle East. In Virginia if you have a drivers liscence you can walk into a Wal-Mart and legally buy as gun. I believe for this sole reason tragedies like this have alway happened in America and from what I can see will for the most part continue.

Though I know that this will never happen but get rid of the guns and you will get rid of the problem. Its a lot harder to kill 32 people if you only have a knife.

 

I disagree. It does not force them to kill but it desensitizes them to the violence and gore. Why else would you explain the behavior of some of this kids around us. You have 6 yr olds 'accidentally' killing their 4 yr old while imitating wrestling moves. You have teens getting hurt while imitating characters from the movie jackass by jumping of roofs of houses and breaking their legs. You have teens trying to out run police by driving excessive speeds. You have society accepting some of the language on public tv until it hits home just like the Imus incident. TV and video games have alot to do with the morals (lack of) and violence that we see. Yet, when I was living in Europe, I did not witness any of the 'excessive' behavior. On this point gentlemen, we will always disagree.

 

This is contradicting. You say the games don't kill but the guns do. Guns don't kill, people do. Stricter gun laws only affects the law abiding people. not the criminal. If you want a gun to use for violence, you WILL find a way to get one. Stricter laws is not the answer. Stricter consequences paired up with prevention will. But Americans do not want to deal with it. So we all suffer.

 

This is my point as far as how stricter laws are not the answer. The gun seller wanted to make money and even though he knew it was for the underaged kids, it was a 'legal' sale. If the law was stricter, they would have found a way to get the guns. Look at cigarette and liqour sales to minors. They find ways to circumvent the law. Prevention begins at the home. If the parent do not want to be responsible, then let extreme consequences hit home. Not by sentencing them to 20 but out in 2. Give them the whole 20 period.

 

stricter gun laws is BS, Washington DC has the worst crime problem in the US , yet has the toughest gun control laws. simply put and all of you know it in the states, criminals with the intent to kill will get guns no matter what type or how many.

Also it is early to tell all the matters involved, the police are not telling the whole story yet...........Columbine 8 years ago is a truth to be told. The Denver police are still hiding evidence from the victims families and the world. 5 months after columbine my wife and I interviewed father and one that lost a daughter at Columbine, Darryl Scott and it was an enlightening experience at the time. You can almost bet 100% that he is in Virigina right now trying to console those families that lost as he made it a personal goal after losing his daughter to the punk ass murderers.........by the way my wife has experience in crisis management and that is one reason why we were allowed to mee with D.S.

 

You cant attribute all those things kids do to what they see on TV or in the movies. Kids try to outrun police because they dont want to get caught and its the 'cool' thing to do. Most of kids who do that are underage and shouldn't be driving either. You ever watch COPS? None of those people are kids - they're all adults. People run because the have warrants, drug paraphernalia, are drunk, or are on drugs. Its not because the TV told them too.

People do what people on Jackass do because, for a lot of them, they dont have anything else to do. No one in the town i lived in did that sort of stuff. We played sports instead - we had things to do. That sort of thing happens in places like Central PA, places were there really isnt a lot going on in the first place and there aren't those extracurricular activities to take part in.

The same with wrestling. I've never heard of a kid being killed from it, but again, the majority of fans for that type of stuff dont have other things to do on the weekend so recreate what their idols do. All that 'underground wrestling' too -same deal.

So, based on this, why dont you blame other professional sports that 'kids' recreate and get injured or killed in? I know plenty of people who play soccer for instance and break ankles or legs. Is that the fault of the people they see on TV playing soccer?

You cant blame society for the actions of a few. A lot of the time, the culprit has mental issues that have nothing to do with TV. TV doesnt desensitize people to blood and gore. You show a real picture of a real dead person who has been shot and most people will be pretty upset about it. Most people can make that detection of what is real and what is fake.

 

I'm sorry but i really dont see the need for people to buy AK-47's and other Assault Rifles. Those are weapons made for the Military and for Military purposes, not civilian. For personal protection, a hand gun is fine and justified. Besides, chances are, you're going to be within 20 yards of who is shooting you. No need for a long-range weapon.

Hunters use sniper rifles and shotguns, so dont use that whole thing. Terrorists and revolutionary forces use military-grade weapons. I really dont see the need of such things being made accessible to the public. There is a post elsewhere on here (the M1 Garand/Carbine thread) where some in the UK has said he has one such gun, but because its the UK it has been rendered incapable of firing. I'm all for that as far as collectors of military-grade weapons go.

 

You said it brother.

As for blaming other sports for injuries. There is a difference between playing street baseball and imitating the WWF (If you consider that a sport). In todays movies, some of those 'fake' beheadings, gunshot wounds, blood and guts spewing are more realistic than say 10 years ago. It does desensitize enough that I have heard teens say 'cool' even to real clips of injuries. Example, in Texas, there use to be a video that was shown to teens while taking driver's ed. It was a video of auto accidents and showed the injuries and was very graphic. It lost its effectiveness due to the 'cool' display of gore.

Yes, adults do outrun the cops and do stupid things as well but what is on the rise is that of the youth (ages 5 and up) doing such stupid things. and just because there is nothing to do does not give anyone the license to go out, drink, have sex, do drugs, get behind the wheel and see if the cops can catch us.

 

Not when you are outgunned. The golden rule, the bigger the better. Interviews have been conducted with imprisoned criminals where they were asked what they thought about the concealed weapon law. They said that they would more than likely think twice as to whom to rob or molest because now they have to guess if their intended victim looks like they would be packing.

 

News flash on the shooter:

A source familiar with the investigation said the weapons found at Norris were a Walther .22-caliber semi-automatic and a 9 mm Glock -- both with the serial numbers filed off.

No AK-47 or assault rifle used here. Illegal weapons and untracable weapons used. Would a stricter law have prevented him getting these weapons. I think not.

 

I agree with Kai,....he should have shot himself first.

I agree with PzJgr,...we are de sensitized to violence/horror.

I agree with Erich,...more laws to legislate morality, (un balanced minds) is not the majic pill.

This guy was Korean, not American. I wish we knew the why.

A tragedy for sure.

Perhaps not selling to non citizens would be a start?

 

It does seem like each one of us bring up good points.

The serial numbers to both guns was filed away which means they were bought off the street and probably were stolen.

 

The town where my HS was had a shooting...in NJ. The kid went out to a gunfare in PA, bought an AK47, came home, shot his brother and his parents with it.

I think there need to be stricter learns governing whom can posses a gun and how many. Or at least an implemenation of some of that new gun technology i've seen on TV- having to have the right thumb print to fire the gun, wearing a special watch that allows the gun to be fired with in two feet of it, etc. That would cut down on stolen-weapons since they wouldn't be able to be used.

As far as to selling to non-citizens, that just brings up a whole new set of issues. Illegal immigrants etc. Its known for a fact that my home town didn't have any crime in it until mexican immigrants (mostly illegal by the amount who hang around the train-station looking for work with gardening companies) started to arrive a few years ago. Last summer there were a number of break-ins by two mexicans who were working for these landscaping companies. Which is another issue needed to be addressed - Banks make deals with Landscapers that allow them (the mexican/hispanic workers) to cash in checks with out showing ID. If i go to the same bank and try to cash in a check, i need to show ID.

 

This is an example of the lienency of the gun law but if he did not buy it at the show, who is to say that he could not have bought it in the street. Again, we are being presented the action but not the root cause. These kids must have learned how to use an AK-47 from somewhere? We are not born with the knowledge to use guns and to be unaffected by the results of a gunshot wound. We are not automatically desensitized. It all begins somewhere.

I have an 18 yr old son I have taught how to shoot. I also taught him to respect the gun. We have discussed anger management (not only pertaining to gun use). He is distressed at what happened in Virginia but is also thinking of how he would have reacted had someone came into his classroom. He also is desenistized because he has watched movies like "Saw" and the such. He thinks it is cool but states that he knows it is only a movie. True but is he capable of going out and shooting at innocent people???? I can only pray that he is not capable because I have spent time with him in teaching him about God, Respect and the meaning of life. Can the same be said of the shooters? Again, lets deal with the root cause.