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5 Failed Rifle Designs

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by PzJgr, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    'Handsomely armed'.
    What a pleasing phrase. makes me just a little fuzzy with jealousy.

    It ain't easy finding good articles on bad guns is it - the Google pitch is so queered by FPS video game chatter & control/freedom arguments from the US.


    Just remembered the Gyrojet Rifle/Pistol project.
    Nice idea in theory, but I seem to recall $100 a shot was a possibility.
    Not the most scholarly of articles, but a decent start:
    http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2010/07/11/mba-gyrojet-technology/
     
  2. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I think Poopy and Urqh have a date with some bangs in USA.....only problem with that is...whenever Irish related folk and Brits have gone looking for guns in America it has not always ended well...I was just trying them out officer....I once on business found myself in car park of a international finance company in Belgium....Guy took me out to his car to show me something he though I would be interested in....Opened boot...in view of office windows and security booth...took out LAW pulled up sight...extended tube...and Urqh thought time for lunch....I thought he was going to show me his new PC....not a shoulder launched fire and forget anti tank tube. Folk can be funny about those things in public.
     
  3. harolds

    harolds Member

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    One rifle that should be included is the FjG 42. This was the German rifle made for the Fallshirmjager. It had both semi and full auto capabilities. It fed from the side using a box magazine. The rifle was mostly used by the FJs in the west, mostly in Italy. It used the full-sized 7.92X57mm cartridge. It worked-sort of. The rifle was light so that it was very hard to control on full auto. The side-loading feature, while making it easier to load in the prone position, also make the rifle side-heavy and cumbersome. Also, it was expensive and hard to produce.
     
  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I thought that was a superior way to describe it. It is poor etiquette to give an inventory of someone else's personal armory. Heck, I don't really like detailing what all I have.
     
  5. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Time for Marschmellows!
     
  6. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Oh go on....
     
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  7. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Back to failed rifle designs. I wasn't aware the FG-42 was such a bad design, though I don't know much about them. I'm sure Harold is correct about it being hard to control in full auto, though the inline design surely kept it from climbing as much as a traditional design. I wonder if the AR series stole that profile? Note how the sights have to be well above the bore with that profile.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I can't say the design was HORRIBLE. Just that it was another failed attempt at combining a full power service rifle and a "base of fire" full-auto weapon. It did neither chore well.
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I'd like to compare one to a BAR and see the results. The BAR was about 50% heavier, but the FG-42 had that inline design to help hold the muzzle down. Perhaps the difference in the perceived success of the two rifles was that the BAR had a much lower rate of fire and so was easier to control.
     
  10. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Because of that weight the BAR was fairly controllable. In WWII it was made in full auto only. It didn't have to switch roles from semi to full auto. Therefore, while it wasn't perhaps the best squad base-of-fire weapon of the war, but it got the job done. After the war both the M-14 and the FAL tried the dual approach but neither was a success doing two jobs. Both were good rifles in the semi-auto versions.
     
  11. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The BAR issued in WWII had a device installed to reduce the rate of fire from 450 rpm to 300 rpm. I'd guess most experienced shooters used that lower rate of fire. The FG-42 was 900 rpm in the first version and 600 rpm in the second version. I think that lower rate of fire had a lot to do with the control of the weapon.
     
  12. harolds

    harolds Member

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    K-beer,

    You're right re. the BAR and the rates of fire. However, I've always heard that the MG-42 had a 1200-1500rpm rate-of-fire while the post-war version could be adjusted for various rates.
     
  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    OOH, OOH, Mr. Kotter....Here's my chance to actually contribute. ..Everybody ready?
    The Ross Rifle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle How morbidly funny would it be if you went [ran out of bullets] to bayonet some guy, and the blade falls with a clank on a rock?
     
  14. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Who woke up Poppy? I believe that got some love on page 1.
     
  15. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    One problem with that -- 'running out of bullets' implies that the Ross could actually shoot them. I'm not entirely convinced -- I have a feeling that the dirt in the trenches would jam the action, or the bolt would come flying out the back of the rifle long before that happened!
     
  16. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    What if a Jerry was sneaking up behind you and... Hey! It could happen!
     
  17. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Dang.

    Sorry 'bout that. Got super excited at the prospect I could actually bring something to the table here, and didn't read very well. ...I'll have to face the fact there probably isn't anything I could bring up that others here haven't already discussed or are more knowledgeable about..So. I'll have to stick with my personal lousy opinions/writing and poorly expressed feelings - 'How's that working for you Poppy?' some may ask....Welllll..
     
  18. chitoryu12

    chitoryu12 recruit

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    One issue with the FG-42 was also the magazine, since you're hanging a big, heavy block of metal (that decreases in weight as you fire the gun) from the left side. The balance must have been utterly terrible.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    KodiakBeer likes this.
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Nice little synopsis on the Ross, in that video.
     

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