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Alternative History WWII "Documentary"

Discussion in 'What If - Other' started by trustyoursources, Mar 12, 2017.

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  1. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    also truth isnt set in stone
    It most certainly is.

    Nothing is absolutely certain it might be 99.9999999% certain but there will always be that 0.0000001 you know.

    these events are decades old and shrouded in mystery we can only try to fit the pieces together. This is how the pieces fit together for me. This is my truth. I realize some parts may not be correct as is true with all things. We edit our history text book every few years because truth is constantly shifting.
    There are things that are known and there are things that are suspected and there are things that are unknown. the fact that "these events" are decades old doesn't mean that they are all that mysterious some are quite well documented there may be pieces that are questionable but that's not what we are discussing here. The pieces don't fit your are cutting them into all sorts of weird shapes and hammering them into place with a sledge hammer. I'm sorry it isn't "your truth" it is either the truth or it isn't and as far as your work goes it isn't. History books are edited when more becomes known not because someone invents some "facts" and comes up with an off the wall interpretation. The wine analogy applies.

    I promise you I conduct my art with passion and swan like grace.

    I feel like it is extremely unfair to limit my artistic expression documentaries are an art not a science. Dont put me in a box.
    I find it extremely unfair that you are pushing such garbage as fact. That you are claiming your work is a documentary when it's clearly a work of fantasy. A documentary is very much a work of science there may be some art in how it is presented but you are suppose to start with facts and build a logical case. You started with fiction and ignored logic to reach the conclusions you wanted to that's not a documentary. I'm sorry but you put yourself in ia box and you belong in it as far as I'm concerned, I'll refrain from going into more detail with that one.

    Check this out. So like during the Victorian era or what ever painting and art was trying to imitate life you know trying to get it as perfectly life like as possible but then wham bam Picaso draws a bunch of crazy geometric patterns and changes art for ever its like a fun house mirror of life but people dig it you know. So documentaries were always made as you say boring but now is a new era and as a pioneer and visionary I am leading the artistic documentorial movement of this era basically im picaso and now documentaries will be more like fun house mirrors because the public is dumb and fat and lazy.

    I respect your opinion but i think Reagan was more important honestly then either of the other two gentleman. He is the one the won after all.
    Thus showing your opinion is worth nothing, sort of like your film.

    Words hurt I hope you dont really mean that.
     
  2. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    The calendar we are using is the same one that tells you you are '26 and marijuana'.
     
  3. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I love the new tag. Lol.
     
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  4. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Listen, the bottom line is the attempt is there to make an artistic piece that is clearly based on unsubstantiated claims and nonsense. Kudos to you for spending time, creating your art; which you obviously feel is beset with truth (which its not). If you took on this thread spewing about the "what ifs" rather then categorize your work as a legitimate documentary, you would of received a warmer reception.

    It's all in the attitude :cool:
     
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  5. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    I feel like you may be right good sir.
     
  6. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    For the first time in my entire life I feel like Im being taken seriously. Even though most of you disagree with my film and some of you also did not take any enjoyment from watching it you all lent me your eyes and ears and that means a lot. Thank you.
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I believe that you are using the wrong analogy here...

    For it is not throwing the baby out with the bath water...it is flushing the turd down the toilet
     
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  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Nope. Somethings are absolutly certain. El Cid is dead for instance. Something may not be as certain but many of your "facts" are quite clearly 100% not facts but fallacies.


    Passion I can belive, grace well that depends on how you want to define it. However if you are making a documentary you and aren't doing a reasonable amount of research you are doing it very very poorly.

    As a point of reference the term revisionist has become a very emotionally laden word in history circles in recent years. That's because it has either very good or very bad connotations. In the latter case it is used to describe people who make up their "facts" and jump to the conclusions they wish to ignoring logic. Sort of sounds like your film doesn't it? Not a film but a good example of the former is the book Shattered Sword, in it's case the authors spent years researching origninal documents to prove among other things that some commonly accepted things weren't all that accurate. It's also a very interesting and easy book to read what's more the authors are active on line and respond well to justified criticism.


    Sorry doesn't work.

    If someone critisises me I try and analyze how accurate the observation is. If it's accurate then I take it to heart and try to change or at least accept it. If not well there's always the quote of a famous author "no gentleman would insult me and no other can". If you are going to paint a target on yourself grow a thicker skin. Based on your postings to date most of us have almost assuredly come to the same conclusion. Your opinions at least in regards to history are worthless because they are based on fallacy and wishes not fact and logic.
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    As to taking you seriously...No, this fantasy piece never cleared the bar of "take it seriously", nor did it get close to "take it amusingly."

    On the plus side, it went above and beyond on the "This is pathetic" scale. So, there is that at least.
     
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  10. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin
     
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  11. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    Best 'what If' thread ever.

    Bravo.
     
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  12. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes, the myth that Disney was frozen is the easily made lie, and their exists no reliable documentation to prove such a thing. The only "sources" that claim Disney was frozen, never cite where this information came from...The the claim cannot be verified as fact.


    Gustav's primary mission was the destruction of the France's Maginot Line...There were no US moon missions in 1941, there were not even any rockets capable of flying more than a few hundred feet, let alone going to the moon.


    That my friend, is because you are a liar...And a poor one at that.

    Your "calendar argument" also fails...Because no matter what calendar you are using, they all point to a single reference in the space-time continuum. Thus, all you have to do is tell us what calendar you are using for your dates.

    For example December 7, 1941, on the Mayan Calendar is 12.16.7.16.13.



    For future reference, I always use the Julian calendar...What calendar do you use?
    [/quote]
    Let's not move on from the "date thing." Since this is you largest failure. Until you can fully grasp the concept, we will remain stuck here until you do.



    Yes, I have issues with your work other than dates...
    It is just plainly...unwatchable. I equate it to the story-telling abilities of a 3-year-old.


    Don't know...I killed the video feed when it mentioned that Kennedy was President in 1940. But, posts have mentioned American defectors to the Soviet Union, and IIRC, there were not any, as they were not welcome, nor trusted in the Soviet Union. Most of the previous American defectors were killed of in the late-1930s during Stalin's purges.


    Filmmaking and storytelling are not your strong suits either. So, I am starting with the small stuff, like calendar dates, before moving on to more involved stuff.


    St. Petersburg? There was no St. Petersburg in Russia at the time., and had not been since 1914. Do you mean Petrograd/Leningrad? If so, say so.


    I will agree that you cannot focus on man-made ideas...Your focus on the man-made ideas of fillmmaking and storytelling is quite abysmal.


    Sorry, my friend, but without dates it is ahistorical. For all we know this is something that is going on in the future...Alien Space Bats have managed to reanimate past persons of prominence to fight some war in a galaxy far far away. So, now you have moved from alternative history to science fiction.


    I see the man-made idea of reading also escapes your focus...I admitted that Korea did not exist at that time.


    Unfortunately, you don't seem to know much about any events...Makes trusting to your judgment impossible.



    Unfortunately for you, it was defensive, not offensive. No nukes were to rain landward from space.


    Don't be scared...Even your drug-addled brain will grasp the concept eventually. Then, we can work on your filmmaking and storytelling.


    Of course kids were involved...and only kids were involved. No adult would come up with this kind of schnit, and not adult would participate in it.

    Your main argument is that drugs adversely effect the human brain...And you have done a good job in proving that. However, given that you are incapable of grasping such a simple concept as a "date", this calls into question the rest of your "conclusions."


    But, he did not survive the assassination...


    He could have hit Stalin with a cactus, but there were no cacti in the room...Nor were there any porcupines.
     
  13. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    I just died laughing
     
  14. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    Nothing is absolutely certain it might be 99.9999999% certain but there will always be that 0.0000001 you know.

    Nope. Somethings are absolutly certain. El Cid is dead for instance. Something may not be as certain but many of your "facts" are quite clearly 100% not facts but fallacies.

    He may not be dead its most likely he is almost infinitely most likely but he also may not. btw who is El Cid anyway?

    I promise you I conduct my art with passion and swan like grace.

    Passion I can belive, grace well that depends on how you want to define it. However if you are making a documentary you and aren't doing a reasonable amount of research you are doing it very very poorly.

    I have done a good bit of research I just chose to not stick with everything I found in order to have more freedom of expression in my work. I assure you I am fairly familiar with the official story.

    As a point of reference the term revisionist has become a very emotionally laden word in history circles in recent years. That's because it has either very good or very bad connotations. In the latter case it is used to describe people who make up their "facts" and jump to the conclusions they wish to ignoring logic. Sort of sounds like your film doesn't it? Not a film but a good example of the former is the book Shattered Sword, in it's case the authors spent years researching origninal documents to prove among other things that some commonly accepted things weren't all that accurate. It's also a very interesting and easy book to read what's more the authors are active on line and respond well to justified criticism.

    Honestly I would agree what I do is like revisionism. But what i do specifically is a revisionism that enhance the "Story" part of Hi"Story" thus making it better than it actually was. Its an improvement much like what you see with revision of text books as they get updated. I dont hear anyone complaining when the Ruling elite do it.


    Check this out. So like during the Victorian era or what ever painting and art was trying to imitate life you know trying to get it as perfectly life like as possible but then wham bam Picaso draws a bunch of crazy geometric patterns and changes art for ever its like a fun house mirror of life but people dig it you know. So documentaries were always made as you say boring but now is a new era and as a pioneer and visionary I am leading the artistic documentorial movement of this era basically im picaso and now documentaries will be more like fun house mirrors because the public is dumb and fat and lazy.

    Sorry doesn't work.

    How doesn't it work what doesn't make sense to you?


    Words hurt I hope you dont really mean that.
    If someone critisises me I try and analyze how accurate the observation is. If it's accurate then I take it to heart and try to change or at least accept it. If not well there's always the quote of a famous author "no gentleman would insult me and no other can". If you are going to paint a target on yourself grow a thicker skin. Based on your postings to date most of us have almost assuredly come to the same conclusion. Your opinions at least in regards to history are worthless because they are based on fallacy and wishes not fact and logic.

    Trust me I have tough skin I have been gladly discussing criticism of my work. But we can all love each other here no need for character attacks.
    "You are my brother" - The Overcoat - N. Gogol
     
  15. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    I am still deeply thankful for your attention and engagement.
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Meh, I'm bored, and putting off shoving snow.
     
  17. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    Let's not move on from the "date thing." Since this is you largest failure. Until you can fully grasp the concept, we will remain stuck here until you do.




    Yes, I have issues with your work other than dates...
    It is just plainly...unwatchable. I equate it to the story-telling abilities of a 3-year-old.



    Don't know...I killed the video feed when it mentioned that Kennedy was President in 1940. But, posts have mentioned American defectors to the Soviet Union, and IIRC, there were not any, as they were not welcome, nor trusted in the Soviet Union. Most of the previous American defectors were killed of in the late-1930s during Stalin's purges.



    Filmmaking and storytelling are not your strong suits either. So, I am starting with the small stuff, like calendar dates, before moving on to more involved stuff.



    St. Petersburg? There was no St. Petersburg in Russia at the time., and had not been since 1914. Do you mean Petrograd/Leningrad? If so, say so.



    I will agree that you cannot focus on man-made ideas...Your focus on the man-made ideas of fillmmaking and storytelling is quite abysmal.



    Sorry, my friend, but without dates it is ahistorical. For all we know this is something that is going on in the future...Alien Space Bats have managed to reanimate past persons of prominence to fight some war in a galaxy far far away. So, now you have moved from alternative history to science fiction.



    I see the man-made idea of reading also escapes your focus...I admitted that Korea did not exist at that time.



    Unfortunately, you don't seem to know much about any events...Makes trusting to your judgment impossible.




    Unfortunately for you, it was defensive, not offensive. No nukes were to rain landward from space.



    Don't be scared...Even your drug-addled brain will grasp the concept eventually. Then, we can work on your filmmaking and storytelling.



    Of course kids were involved...and only kids were involved. No adult would come up with this kind of schnit, and not adult would participate in it.


    Your main argument is that drugs adversely effect the human brain...And you have done a good job in proving that. However, given that you are incapable of grasping such a simple concept as a "date", this calls into question the rest of your "conclusions."



    But, he did not survive the assassination...



    He could have hit Stalin with a cactus, but there were no cacti in the room...Nor were there any porcupines.[/QUOTE]


    Right again official story is cremation yet there is a solid possibility this was an easy made lie. There are a lot of sources claiming he was in fact frozen cryogenically.
    Yes, the myth that Disney was frozen is the easily made lie, and their exists no reliable documentation to prove such a thing. The only "sources" that claim Disney was frozen, never cite where this information came from...The the claim cannot be verified as fact.

    I just googled Walt Disney Frozen and other then that one movie that came out I got this http://mentalfloss.com/article/54196/disney-ice-truth-about-walt-disney-and-cryogenics might be a lead.


    Yeah the gun was never used to shoot down the US moon mission it ultimately failed in its primary objective.
    Gustav's primary mission was the destruction of the France's Maginot Line...There were no US moon missions in 1941, there were not even any rockets capable of flying more than a few hundred feet, let alone going to the moon.

    Yeah they said it was the primary mission so that the allies would not find out till it was too late what their primary mission actually was.


    Every time I get caught up in dates things just seem to make me out the liar since there are 365 days in a year and so many years are involved its just way to much nit picky info to try to get through to prove which of the million dates anything happened on. I looked into it now and there are like 4 different calendars out there the Roman, Jewish, Chinese, Mayan, etc so we will not get any where with this because who know how anyone came up with any given date really.
    That my friend, is because you are a liar...And a poor one at that.

    Your "calendar argument" also fails...Because no matter what calendar you are using, they all point to a single reference in the space-time continuum. Thus, all you have to do is tell us what calendar you are using for your dates.

    For example December 7, 1941, on the Mayan Calendar is 12.16.7.16.13.

    I am not an astrologist. I do not know how to read the stars to tell time I make documentaries.


    Again idk which calendar you are using lets move on from this date thing.

    For future reference, I always use the Julian calendar...What calendar do you use?[/quote]
    Let's not move on from the "date thing." Since this is you largest failure. Until you can fully grasp the concept, we will remain stuck here until you do.

    Not an astrologer.


    More dates do you have any other issues with my work other then dates?
    Yes, I have issues with your work other than dates...
    It is just plainly...unwatchable. I equate it to the story-telling abilities of a 3-year-old.

    You did not feel like you were there in the room as Trotski stared in Stalin's eyes as he pulled the trigger?


    Was this part of the documentary?
    Don't know...I killed the video feed when it mentioned that Kennedy was President in 1940. But, posts have mentioned American defectors to the Soviet Union, and IIRC, there were not any, as they were not welcome, nor trusted in the Soviet Union. Most of the previous American defectors were killed of in the late-1930s during Stalin's purges.

    Thats one theory

    No more dates. Not my strong suit.
    Filmmaking and storytelling are not your strong suits either. So, I am starting with the small stuff, like calendar dates, before moving on to more involved stuff.

    I can't beat it... the horse... its dead.

    I meant the Red Army in St. Petersburg were on the brink of defeat and the whole of the Red Army would have been on the brink is St. Petersburg fell.
    St. Petersburg? There was no St. Petersburg in Russia at the time., and had not been since 1914. Do you mean Petrograd/Leningrad? If so, say so.

    Can you not come up with any better argument then it was named something else? It was still there wasn't it?

    Yeah I dont focus much on man made ideas like dates because there are so many variant theories on what todays or any other dates date is. I mean some cultures cant even agree on how many months there are.
    I will agree that you cannot focus on man-made ideas...Your focus on the man-made ideas of fillmmaking and storytelling is quite abysmal.

    Painful words.

    No.
    Sorry, my friend, but without dates it is ahistorical. For all we know this is something that is going on in the future...Alien Space Bats have managed to reanimate past persons of prominence to fight some war in a galaxy far far away. So, now you have moved from alternative history to science fiction.

    Why do you want to ban imagination in History?

    It may have been names something else but even you admit it existed.
    I see the man-made idea of reading also escapes your focus...I admitted that Korea did not exist at that time.

    So what you are saying is where Korea is today during world war ii was just nothing? like a vacuum? or was it ocean? Im lost.
     
  18. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    I do not know much about the Readan assassination attempt but yeah pretty much everything since JFK has been world war II events.

    Unfortunately, you don't seem to know much about any events...Makes trusting to your judgment impossible.

    I feel like I do though

    Yeah he imagineered it.

    Unfortunately for you, it was defensive, not offensive. No nukes were to rain landward from space.

    LOL

    Dates....

    Don't be scared...Even your drug-addled brain will grasp the concept eventually. Then, we can work on your filmmaking and storytelling.

    sad space

    I also do not think kids were involved I think everyone serving on the moon base was an adult.

    Of course kids were involved...and only kids were involved. No adult would come up with this kind of schnit, and not adult would participate in it.

    I could see it kids weigh less more cost efficient to fly up there.

    My main argument in my work is that they are the same war but to reach this conclusion you must believe the rest of my points.

    Your main argument is that drugs adversely effect the human brain...And you have done a good job in proving that. However, given that you are incapable of grasping such a simple concept as a "date", this calls into question the rest of your "conclusions."

    Sounds like you are scared to actually argue against my conclusions and keep back peddling to this dead horse date thing.

    If he survived the assassination there would have been no legit autopsy. Just make up and pics for Stalin to be tricked by.

    But, he did not survive the assassination...

    Yeah he did. Who killed Stalin?

    Not if Trotski spent the lots of alone time he had with Stalin's body to cover it up with foundation or something.

    He could have hit Stalin with a cactus, but there were no cacti in the room...Nor were there any porcupines.

    At least you are using some imagination.
     
  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Try googling Walt Disney, cremated...


    Regretfully, the Allies were well aware of Gustav's original mission, and they died laughing.
    You see the gun lacked the necessary degree of elevation to hit the intended target. It also lacked the necessary velocity to reach it's intended target, and it was fired in the wrong direction of it's intended target.


    Dude...Put down the bong...Move away from the bong...And sober up.

    It's astronomer, not astrologist...

    Your abilities at making documentaries are equal to your abilities with dates. They are both nil.


    Again my friend, cease and desist with the Marijuana...Active brain cells are a beautiful thing.


    No...The video ended at about the 1:23 mark...Trotsky and Stalin, IIRC, were never mentioned.


    Did not realize that there was more than one...What are the others, and when do the Alien Space Bats come in.


    We don't need to know about your sexual problems...This is a family friendly forum after all.


    The horse is alive and well...It is your brain cells that are dead.


    Regretfully, no, St. Petersburg was not there. Petrograd was.

    Seems that your trouble with dates, filmmaking, and storytelling, is advancing...Now, you are having trouble with places too.


    Painful, but truthful. Hearing the truth has been known to cause pain.


    History is what happened in the past...You are advancing some sort of Alien Space Bat Far Far Away Future.

    Further,how do you know that you are imagining History, when you cannot tell the past from the present or future?
    So, AFAIK, you are talking about some Alien Space Bat Far Far Away Future.


    I figured you would be lost...You missed the left turn at Albuquerque. To fix that, head back in a reciprocal direction, and take your "other left" at Albuquerque.

    Seesh, Do you have any strong suits? We have been crossing of a lot in our discussions.
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    My suggestion would be to seek psychiatric help for these delusions of grandeur that you are having.


    It is hard to argue about your impressions of the future...Since the future has not happened yet.


    God did...He kills everybody. Even Trotsky and Stalin...and Elvis.


    It didn't require imagination.

    The Heart Attack Gun fired a poison dart. Few things are dart shaped. You are not going to cover up a dart hole by hitting the body with a chair.
     

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