Amanda Knox's Lawyers Request Review

I for one feel that the circus that is the trial, retrial, and retrial trial of the murder of Brit backpacker Meredith Kercher have gone on long enough.

It should be fairly obvious to anyone that the Italian Legal sysytem has failed, utterly, to properly handle a crime, merely because its not perpetrated by Mafiosi.

Their methods are inadequate. Their DNA testing is unsound. They are strangely unaware of double jepoardy. They have released far too much non-sence to the press, leaving the possibility of an uncompromised trial impossible. They have structured the case so all three accused have to prove their innocense, rather than the other way around. They have been arrogant with opinions getting precedence over evidential fact.

This may all be very well when prosecuting Mafiosi when no witnesses will come forward, but for other crime....terrible.

I propose that ALL THREE people be aquitted. Amanda Knox of Seattle, and Rafael Sollecito of Italy, to walk free as INNOCENT, by virtue of a bungled and incredibly poorly handled investigation. The third person, Rudy Guede', of Perugia, to be freed also on a mistrial technicality, despite his incredibly obvious guilt. He would not be the first person to walk free and guilty, but thats what happens when you bungle a case.

Prosecutor Magnini needs to be sacked immediately, and brought down a peg or two from the exalted heights that he looks down at mere mortals from. He's proven more than able to make the story up and has demonstrated absolutely nothing when it comes to showing WHY a pair of already sexually satisfied young students would, for no apparent reason, throw away everything they have worked for in their lives over an argument about money/domestic hygiene. Nor has Magnini demonstrated any motivation by these two students to engage in "sex games" for any reason. Perhaps Magnini's Catholic upbringing leads him to believe that young women who have lost their virginity before marriage are somehow EVIL and capable of turning into vicious psychopaths at the drop of a hat.....overnight.

Absolve Knox and Sollecito at once...
Free Rudy Guede on a technicality.....
Italy to pay the legal fees of all three and then....
COMPENSATE the Kercher family in a big way....
Then....get rid of Magnini and everyone in his hierarchial legal structure...restore the faith of outsiders and Italians in the legal system of this once Great country.

 

Describing Meredith Kercher as a "Brit backpacker" is misleading and a bit dismissive, don't you think; she was attending University in Perugia for a study year while studying for a degree at Leeds Uni.

Your arguments about sex lives and stupid acts risking future prospects can't sway me one way or another, since I haven't heard all of the evidence produced in court, particularly when establishing character. I can say that people 'with loving partners' are unfaithful all the time, they experiment, they commit violent sexual acts, etc. People all round the world make stupid decisions without reference to a possible impact on their future.




Compensation? For the murder of a daughter, a sister? Is that your answer to this whole saga - for the Kercher family? If I were in that situation I would want justice, not compensation. I think throughout this whole procedure the stance of the Kercher family has been admirable. They and especially Meredith Kercher are the ones who seem to be forgotten each and every time the circus surrounding Knox rolls up in the media.





I can only hope that the choreographed use of the media by Knox, her family and her advisors will stop. Whatever they may think of Italian courts, of media coverage, it is not a trial by public opinion. The true victim in all of this, and the indisputable manner of her death, receives very little coverage in comparison.

Seems to me that there is in general little trust by some US citizens in any courts of law outside of USA... though others including myself here in UK have a deep mistrust for example of the USA's usage of UK-US extradition treaty and subsequent pre-trial procedures there.




I am left wondering where you'll be taking these proposals & demands, besides this forum?

 

You sound like a british lawyer, anxious that your Italian collegues, and therefore the legal sysytem as a whole entity, be seen in the best light possible.

Why should these kids suffer for an Italian legal system that so obviously needs reform. They haven't even heard of double jeopardy, and since when do you hold an appeal hearing with the same old evidence going round again and again? Appeals should be put before a court using ONLY new evidence. This will be the third time some of this evidence has been put before a judiciary. Is that Italian justice, to keep submitting the same case over and again until you find a judge who agrees?....or who you've got an 'understanding' with?

An since when does the Kercher family care a fig for justice for anyone other than Meredith Kercher? Blindly following the legal ups and downs of Senor Magnini? Never once questioning whether he might have got it so wrong? Colluding with the BBC to produce a documentary that presents Knox and Sollecito in the worst light possible, yet absolves Rudy Guede on laughable grounds? Funny how they can make accusations of Knox and Sollecito's duplicity without ever mentioning that officially, the murder has already been solved. They simply will not rest until both the American and her Italian lover are right where the Kercher's feel they ought to be, and damn what Knox and Sollecito think about that! And you call that good conduct? I'd call it something completely different to that.

Justice means you get the right people, and Italian prosecutors have yet to establish a proper motive for this. You can't just airily wave your nose in the air and make veiled accusations of 'sex games' without some kind of proof. Nor can you establish motive just by deciding that the morality of your suspects is less than your own.

I think the conduct of the Kerchers leaves a lot to be desired. Compensation would be the ONLY thing the italians could offer them. They've already thrown justice out of the courtroom by trying this case as if it was a Mafia hit, and treating the suspects as guilty until proven innocent. I ask you, what else can they do for the Kerchers but compensate them now?

And finally, since when do you care what happens to this protest, or whether it carries on outside this forum. You really do sound like a lawyer with his knickers in a knot.

I am left to wonder whether it's any business of yours WHAT I do with my protestations!

 

now, having disposed of DBF's brand of cheerleading for the Italian Legal system, if anybody has something new to add, rather than just invective, I'll be happy to oblige.

My first contact with this case was the aformentioned BBC documentary "Is Amanda Knox Guilty?". For something supposedly produced by the BBC, it's a shameful piece of journalism that left me taking note to punch holes in it. And there were so many, including Rude Quede's terrible idea of how the murderer spoke to him ("Black man found, black man condemned!), I could see something was wrong with this poorly prosecuted case from the outset.

Does a perpetrator stab somebody with a knife and then clean it, before returning it to his own kitchen draw?....LAUGHABLE

How can no less than five computers voluntarily submitted as evidence by Knox and Sollecito ALL be wiped clean.?....CORRUPT

Does an innocent man skip the country immediately and go to Germany?....INCREDIBLE

Why would'nt Italian authourities DNA test ejaculate stains on the pillowcase under Kercher's body?....OUTRAGEOUS

Why are the Italians ignoring their own role in using proven illegal confession extraction techniques used on Mafia suspects?.....AMAZING

How can the Italians claim that anyone can clean their own DNA from a crime scene, and leave behind other DNA thats not your own?...STUPIDITY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.......

The Italian authorites need to swallow their pride, absolve and release all three people, (Knox, Guede, Sollecito), and pour money into the bankaccounts of the Kercher family in great amounts, AFTER they have sorted every legal fee owed to the other three.

THIS is the only way "justice" will be served. It can't be done at the expense of the accused/convicted/reconvicted/reaccused/retried any longer.

 

And you sound like a slightly peculiar person on a single issue crusade to decide someone is innocent because proven American...

Love the reply in agreement with your own post, by the way. Classy. Not really much point in replying on the actual subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQaH3-LK54

 

Adam, I'm not swayed by your sarcasm. It seems that we englishmen are incapable of seeing lawyers and judges as anything but right and correct, no matter what country they are in.

How about a point by point reply, rather than all this internet cuteness. With over 4,ooo posts under your belt, I don't wonder you've seen your fair share of idiots, so branding me as 'peculiar' I'll take as a great comment. English people have a high tolerance for eccentrics, (their countryside is full of them), so I'll take that comment in the spirit given,,,,whatever that was.

If you wish to discuss this case, I'm not running anywhere, or trading insults from some supposed moral high ground.

Thanks for your reply!

 

dbf BTW...

This case has been tried fully TWICE and is on it's third time round. Every bit of evidence thats ever likely to be presented has been. Theres nothing left. So whats stopping you from having an opinion? Certainly not what you told us all, "since I haven't heard all the evidence produced in court."

Either you are unaware of the case, in which case you should not be commenting, or you are simply stating a point of view from a moral standpoint alone.

Either way, your statement doesn't fool me.

I'm sure it won't fool anybody else, either. All the trial transcripts are available on the internet, so get cracking, or back down.

Thanks for your reply, and your superficial interest!

 

Thanks, I try to be logical in my arguments ... and reasoned.

Which theoretical Italian colleagues would that be then? The Italian prosecution, the Italian defence, or the Italian judiciary as a whole?
If you re-read my post you will find it quite neutral, as far as the Italians are concerned.

What “kids”?
Why should I accept your word that a nation's legal system needs reform? Because of your opinion on legal arguments in one case?

It is also British justice. Ohh, that can seem quite interminable sometimes. Even the UK Government relies on the 'layers upon layers' of appeals ... rulings, reviews, enquiries ... and, oops, miscarriages and pardons.

You're all heart - when it comes to the defendants.


Unlike you I wouldn’t guess what they are thinking, I stated that if I were in the same situation, I would want justice. As an ideal, Justice does tend to be depicted as blind. Your own scales on the other hand, are tipping over to one side.

Did I touch a raw nerve or something?
You started a thread, on a public forum... don’t you don’t want replies?
Or do you want only those which agree with yours?
I just find declamations like yours a little frivolous and self-indulgent.

 

PS Is it really “finally”?

Apparently not, even though I have been dispensed with ...

The rest of your post is, as I said in my initial response - trial by public opinion. Your opinion, or mine, doesn’t count in this legal matter. We are not in the courtroom hearing the testimony etc.

Not being English, I really can’t respond to that comment directed to Adam. This Brit however thinks nothing of the sort.

(And yet it’s a terrible slur on all Englishmen, thank goodness the women and children escaped.)

Ahem, from where I’m standing, you do seem to be shouting from some high horse.

 

...Not yet "finally", still not quite dismissed by Rlean.

Transcripts as you are no doubt aware, can't convey all that’s put before a court. Therefore even you with your declared knowledge in this matter you should, by your own logic, excuse yourself from commenting. (Unless, you were present in court, each time.)


As regards moral standpoints & opinions, etc - they really aren’t mutually exclusive. So that ultimatum is a bit off target.

You’re most welcome.

 

I haven't followed this case closely, but what struck me from the beginning was that Knox and Sollecito lied and made up a big story that some guy named Lumumba did it. That later proved untrue because Lumumba was at his bar with dozens of witnesses.

If you're innocent, you don't 'finger' some innocent party via perjuring yourself on a police statement. That alone makes them guilty in my mind. I don't know if the prosecution got the details or sequence of events correct, but that lie ties them into the killing as far as I'm concerned.

 

Kodiak....Knox and Sollecito made no such claim....

the Police did...based on phone messages sent to Amanda, and relayd by her. Amanda's interrogation with no lawyer present, resulted in the Police arresting Lumummba. Knox herself never made any such claims to his guilt. She mentioned that they had communicated.

And in any case, without a lawyer, confessions are inadmissable, no matter who signed what when.

The Italians have approached this case as an organised crime, and used the same less than legal methods to prise doubtful 'confessions' out of their suspects. Notice how the motive for the case keeps changing? notice how Magninis 'professionals' have not budged one inch from their stated case, even when they found the perpetrator Rudy Guede? It's judicial arrogance of the lowest kind.


And I hate to say it, but you do NOT keep resubmitting a case with the same evidence in the British justice system, any more than the Italians should. It leaves prosecutions wide open to corruption, which the Italians are famous for anyhow. Heck, even Julius Caesar was stabbed by about a dozen senators that he had previously spared in the name of keeping "The Peace".

Belesar, I have insulted no-one. Why don't you give Adam a warning as well, and his good mate dbf? All criticism and no information. and standing back and bagging me for having an opinion when you have no opinion yourself? Discredit me without offering any evidence themselves?. Hard data would be appreciated, rather than cute little titbits based on semantics.

And dbf, I feel that lawyers are social parasites, so your acceptance of the tag confirms in my mind you have a greater opinion of yourself than is strictly necessary, as most legal people do.

 

So, with the first wave of detractors firmly back out at sea, who's next?

I repeat again....my position is that ALL THREE SUSPECTS should be absolved and released, free to go about their business.

Compensation should be apportioned to pay for the trio's legal fees.....and a VERY large amount then paid directly to the Kercher family.

All Italian legal representatives in Senior Magnini's prosecution team to step down immediately with no chance of recompense.

The Italian legal system to undergo immediate reform, including provision for double Jeopardy, and for their Court of appeals to be completely revamped.

 

I might add that convicted felon Rudy Guede fingered Knox and Sollecito, got 15 years off his sentence, and you would think he was innocent on those grounds alone?

There is evidence to suggest that Guede was a Police informant. He also had a history of burglaries, with the same MO as was found to be the case with Knox and Kerchers house, a rock through the window.

Rudy was also a full head and a half taller than Meredith Kercher, and much heavier. The scenario runs that he broke in, rummaged around, and heard Meredith coming into the house. He suprised Kercher, a struggle ensued, (a brief one), he easily overpowered her. He then raped her, including vaginal penetration, made a brief attempt to clean up, and then ran for his life, turning up in Germany.

Knox and Sollecito co-operated fully with the police, even submitting to questioning without a lawyer present. Their conduct in no way harbours guilt....just naivete, and understandably so from Uni Students fresh out of the nest.

It quite a simple story really, if your name is not Snior Magnini

 

*cough* OJ Simpson trial. Scary how things go so wrong in the courts all around the free world...Also think the Italian legal system looked a bit weird during that trial.

 

Good luck with those proposals.
A truly cunning plan - utilizing the Free Fire Zone to kick off your campaign. I bet the Italian authorities are monitoring this as I type.

Why "repeat again". We could just re-read your first post... or I could spend my time on something a lot more interesting.

Ciao.

 

Not the system, just the players. The whole Knox thing, prosecution & defense, stinks to high heaven.

Funny you should mention the OJ Case, talk about needing to fix "Double Jeopardy"...Acquitted in the Criminal trial, but slammed hard in the Civil trial.

Curious as to why your "opinion" applies only to Italy, when most European nations have legal systems in place that are set up in similar fashion - ie. the prosecution can appeal the verdict & the verdict is not "final" until the entire appeals process has been gone through.

 

Takao, I'm not talking about cases elsewhere, only Italy. And in this trial, the same evidence has been resubmitted. A proper Appeals system does not allow the same evidence to be resubmitted for an appeal. It all has to be NEW, and not heard before, otherwise there are no grounds for an appeal to begin with.

This trial has been so badly mismanaged it eaves me wondering whether Mafisi convicted by these idiots were innocente all along.

Remember, Magnini is mainly involved in mafia prosecutions. His last trial before this one he also engaged in fantasy scenarios involving mystic sex games, and other lurid accusations, presumably designed to appeal to straitlaced Catholics, fr most of his work is high profile, and keeping public support onside is important to him and his department.

Which leds to another aspect. Magnini casually leaked information about this trial before it even got to court in 2009. In any other civilized country, he's guilty of perjury right off the bat.

The entire mess should have been thrown out of court to begin with.

Now hows that for debate with civility. No cute you tube videos of dubious assciation, no line by line diagnosis based on semantics and grammar.

Convict Adam....convict dbf....give them a warning!

 

Regretfully, you are off the mark on this. A confession is admissible, at least in a US Court, if the defendant is in command of his mental faculties and waives his right to counsel. However, a confession obtained involuntarily or through duress would be considered inadmissible in a US Court.

But, given our "level" of knowledge pertaining to this case, you have clearly stated that

Given that the defendants "cooperated fully with the police" implies neither duress or an involuntary confession.

Also, I hardly see Knox as being naive.