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America and Ike picked up some different ideas while fighting the Nazis- Not all were good

Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by GunSlinger86, May 3, 2014.

  1. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

    Sep 18, 2013
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    First of all, I said that the Gulf of Tonkin incident that Johnson said happened as his reason to go to war was a false flag on its face that Johnson and McNamara had in mind in the running up to that, that its been admitted as never happening by military and government officials, and it was used as a justification for war, and armaments profits increased significantly as did the military budget after we went into full-war mode.

    Kennedy fired the General who presented him with Operation Northwoods, which was ALL FALSE FLAGS to incite war with Cuba and later Communist Russia itself as a bi-product, so I highly doubt he would have supported the fake Gulf of Tonkin Incident that never happened. His chiefs of staff hated him because they all felt he was soft on Communism by his policies. They wanted to attack while he wanted to be a diplomat, especially with Cuba and with Russia, the Bay of Pigs withstanding only because the CIA misled him. I didn't say he didn't support a strong military, I said his commitment to not go into a full-scale war would have kept the budget and profits SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than after Johnson committed large-scale ground troops, massive bombing (we dropped more bombs on Viet Nam that all the powers of WWII combined), and increased covert action.
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Jul 24, 2007
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    I don't know where you got this but it certainly doesn't conform to what I remember. The reaction of people in the US was more one of disbeleif or shock rather than "not thinking it was wrong". Do you have any sources supporting your positoin?
    That's certainly debateable (the contry moving significantly to the right). There was the "red scare" problem that a certain senator pushed for all it was worth but he was pretty throughly discredited by the time it was over. The fact that documents showed "the Soviets were not intending to drop nukes on us through the 1950s" doesn't carry much weight either unless those documents were available at the time. It's also rather clear from what I've seen that the Soviets did indeed have such a capability and intent by the late 50s.

    I'm not so sure this really should be considered a "false flag" operation. What sources do you have supporting this position? Note we didn't declare war in Korea either or in lots of operations before or after. There were some fairly good reasons for not doing so as well.

    You have indeed said so that doesn't mean that it is accurate. The Gulf of Tonkin incident clearly did occur. What was actually happening at the time may have been.

    The Cuban missile crissis rather suggest the opposite.
  3. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

    Oct 12, 2008
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    Point 2 is wrong. The US economy had been dominated by massive corporations by the turn of 19th and 20th Centuries. It was the explicit goal of the New Deal era to roll back on corporate monopolies (ref: FDR speech "I welcome their hatred") but FDR dropped economic populism from his agenda because a. the SOCTUS checkmated him and b. fighting the war required corporate support.

    Point 3 is also questionable. Domestic spying was rampant in the US starting from the First World War. Military Intelligence Division-Section 3 and the Justice Department wire-tapped, stalked and harassed dissidents ever which way during the Great War, culminating in the Red Scare and the establishment of the FBI. Military Intelligence Division, by the way, was created by a military officer who did cloak and dagger work during the Filipino-American War.

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