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America doesn't fight.

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by harolds, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. harolds

    harolds Member

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    In Europe, that is. This would require Hitler not declaring war and the USA, in turn, not declaring war on Germany but instead concentrating on Japan. Let's assume congress continues to OK the Lend-Lease program. How would the war have played out? How would Britain have coped?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    First, shoot FDR.
     
  3. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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    Not that this would happen by any means, but I think the USSR could have beaten Germany alone with the support (supplies, weapons, etc) of the British and the U.S.
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    We'd still send endless cans of Spam.
     
  5. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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    Still better than what they got from Soviet supplies though :D
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Why is the US staying out of it? This is a pretty drastic change and just how it occurs could be important in determining the impact.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    As OP's post and the Gallup polls show, Americans weren't too keen on entering another war in Europe. After the Pearl Harbor attack, Americans were focused on Japan and mad as hell. Hitler declared war on us, not the other way around. Had he not done so, we might have stayed out of Europe except for continuing material help for Britain- and possibly to the USSR.
     
  9. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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    I don't know, I think the U.S would have gotten involved anyway, with their ships firing on, and being fired upon in the Atlantic, they were already kind of at war with Germany. FDR wanted to help the British and Soviets take the Germans and Italians out of the equation allowing all three to go against Japan eventually as well.
     
  10. green slime

    green slime Member Patron  

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    US aircraft production was approx 300,000 of all types over the course of the war. USAAF losses were 18,418 aircraft in theaters fighting Germany, and they claimed 29,916 aircraft downed against Germany and its allies. 1,693,565 sorties were flown by the USAAF in Europe and near-Europe related areas. RAF Bomber command flew 364,514 sorties. This would need to be increased by 75% to make up for the shortfall, only in bombing. This ignores the enormous contribution made in sheer logistics by the USA in all theatres.

    German production was approx 120,000 of all types.

    It is hard to see how the UK and USSR could've adequately manned more aircraft (assuming lend lease) to make up the shortfall in long range bomber crews with their long range fighters that so seriously damaged German industry in 1944. How they were going to pay for this vast increase in cost is another issue.

    Without a real threat in the West (where 50+ divisions were kept), nor the threat to Italy (20+ German divisions), and the severe lessening of the bomber threat, with its commiserate easing of the LW situation. Looking at compound losses over the 41-43 period afforded Germany due to the presence of the USA (Iran, North Africa, USAAF, Atlantic). Russia is going to have a far more difficult task.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    You'll note the Nov. '41 polls. The US was resigned to having to get into the fight by then, and willing to do what has to be done. We were going to war and Germany was considered the most dangerous enemy.
     
  12. harolds

    harolds Member

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    They were resigned OP, but not enthusiastic. One of the things I've read and heard several times over the years is that until the Ardennes Malmedy Massacre, the U.S. soldier didn't have a real good idea why we were fighting Germany. They knew why they were fighting Japan and wanted blood-lots of blood. I think it's possible we could have been diverted. However, this is a "what if..." and let's, for argument sake, say we didn't get in. How would the Commonwealth have fared?
     
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  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    What rational person WANTS to get into a war?

    I should post to impossible what-ifs, it's rather frustrating.
     
  14. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    [​IMG]

    There's nothing cushy about life in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps!

    .
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Swoosh.
     
  16. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    You can get a good sense of the priorities by looking at the German divisional commitments in half-yearly increments.

    In the 2d half of 1941, there were an average of 41 divisions in the west/10 in the SE, Italy, and Africa/51 total in the "west"/versus 152 in the "east" and Finland
    In the 1st half of 1942, there were 32/8.5/40.5/174.5
    In the 2d half of 1942, there were 39/10/49/186.5
    In the 1st half of 1943, there were 51/18/59/195
    In the 2nd half of 1943, there were 51/35/86/191
    In the 1st half of 1944, there were 61/46.5/107.5/168

    Looking at it that way, of all German divisions committed:

    In the 2d half of 1941, 25% were in the west
    In the 1st half of 1942, 19% were in the west
    In the 2nd half of 1942, 21% were in the west
    In the 1st half of 1943, 23% were in the west
    in the 2nd half of 1943, 31% were in the west
    in the 1st half of 1944, 38% were in the west
     
  17. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I should post to impossible what-ifs, it's rather frustrating.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry, I missed your point on this statement.
     
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'm sorry, I missed your point on this statement.[/QUOTE]
    I'm on drugs, get used to it.
     
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  19. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude Patron  

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    I believe the Rooskies referred to that delicacy in a can "Roosevelt Sausage".
     
  20. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    The more important question is what Japan does, for if Japan moves south the US can not fail but get into the war by the back door even if it does not go through the front.
     

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