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America doesn't fight.

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by harolds, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    One thing that is often overlooked was how significant a contribution the communist made to the anti war movement in the US. Of course once the Germans attacked the Soviets they changed their position rather dramatically. That attack on a former ally didn't help their image either.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    That turnabout left a lasting impression that the CPUSA was just a puppet of the Kremlin.
     
  3. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    What would happen if and this a big if, Germany declares war on Japan after Pearl Harbor.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Casus belli?
     
  5. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    Hitler considers the Japanese as subhuman and as such the Japanese never joins the Axis, or more to the point, Hitler refuses to allow Japan into the Axis. Thus on 8th December 1941 Germany declares war on Japan.
    It is not perfect but it may have legs to run, so what do you think?
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The US was actively backing Britain by 1942, "shoot on sight" orders issued to the fleet, US troops in Iceland to secure a forward patrol base, etc. Hitler made the Japanese "honorary Aryans" because that was what was left as allies. Anything that distracted any of the Allies, officially at war or not, was valuable to the German war effort.

    1941 Documents relating to World War II Scroll down to December to read Hitler's excuses for declaring war on the US.
     
  7. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    And yet if Germany somehow declares war on Japan, the USA would find it hard to turn around and declare war on Germany, this could lead to FDR being impeached, and there is the saying an enemy of my enemy is my friend.
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    You've wandered too far from reality for me.
     
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  9. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Except that he didn't. Hitler declared the Japanese Ehrenarier and Germany had excellent relations with the Japanese going back to 1926. Notably they also had excellent relations with the Chinese, training and equipping the Chinese National Army from 1926-1936. It wasn't until China declared war on Germany on 8 December 1941 that the relationship changed.
     
  10. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    Dear Rich, what do you bother being on an alternate history forum, because you are incapable of abstract thought as alternate concept, you are a factual fan boy, you are only interested in the facts and facts only, you should save yourself the habitual headache and go to another forum dealing in actual history.
     
  11. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Dude, chill. He's just pointing out that such a what-if is highly unlikely
     
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  12. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you still do not realize this forum is not Alt Alien Space Bats History. It is a subsection of a sub-forum on a World War II history forum.

    "Abstract thinking" is using the ability to understand and think about complex subjects that, while real, are not tied to actual experiences, people, objects, or situations. Starting such a thought experiment from an unreal event or thing is not "abstract thinking".

    Time travel is not at "alternate concept", it is fantasy.
     
  13. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    Maybe it's time to ask Otto to change the "What If" sub forum page to "Fantasy and Other Nonsense" . That way nonsensical speculation can be easily ignore.
    Or maybe add an addendum only realistic WW2 time frames need apply.
     
  14. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    Or shut it down altogether.
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Legit military what-iffing is usually called "Strategy and Tactics."
     
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  16. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    In order for the USA not to get involved you'd need political and public opinion to be against it. Which means the Germans have to not antagonise them. Which means adding severe limits to the U-boat campaign. Which means losing the most effective weapon Germany has against Britain. Which basically makes it a non-starter from the German viewpoint - look at WW1 where curtailing submarine warfare to avoid antagonising America made it so ineffective that Germany decided it was better annoying America and sinking more shipping.

    I can't think of any other big issue that was within Germany's power to alter significantly.
     
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  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Gallup Polls:
    DECEMBER 23

    THREAT TO AMERICA'S FUTURE

    Interviewing Date 12/12-17/41

    Survey #255 Question #6

    Which country is the greater threat to America's future — Germany or Japan?

    Germany........................... 64%

    Japan.............................. 15

    Equal threats........................ 15

    No opinion......................... 6
     
  18. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    Opana, I read somewhere that the vast population of the US did not know where the hell Germany was.
    Many in the US have no clue about anything of the rest of the world.
    I went to the USA in 2004 and I was shocked that virtually no one heard of Australia and one old yokels even asked me did we have train stations.
    If today you went into New York City and polled young folk they are totally lost on even their own country
    When it comes to the rest of the world the Americans are clueless. As one US quote says the world stops at the border.
    I found out that President George Bush Jr had never set foot outside the Contiguous US before becoming President.
     
  19. Roderick Hutchinson

    Roderick Hutchinson Member

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    By the way Opana how many were polled and where did they live.
     
  20. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    "Many" Americans couldn't find their ass with both hands. BUT we heard a lot about Germany just a couple of decades earlier. AND the papers were good at adding maps.

    As for Dubya*, you're welcome.

    *George H. W. Bush was the father of George W. Bush. "Dubya" as he was called was not a "Jr."
     

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