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AMM2 duties

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare in the Pacific' started by Steve Petersen, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Member

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    My wife's uncle was an Aviation Machinist's Mate Second Class. He was aboard the Hornet (CV-8) from commissioning until sinking. He survived.

    What were the duties of an AMM2?

    What were the battle stations for an AMM2?
     
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Here's some data from the USS Enterprise:
    WWII U.S. Navy Rates, Divisions and Pay Scales
     
  3. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Member

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    Any idea what the general quarter positions and/or duties would be for Aviation Machinists Mates?
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana WW2|ORG Editor

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    They could be in the Engine Shop or elsewhere on the hangar deck, but they could also be part of the a gun position or damage control party. You want to get your best people in the shops, but they should also have a taste of damage control so they can pitch in if needed. If the person were attached to a Squadron and not ship's company it's more likely they'd be in the shops.
     
  5. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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  6. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    Most air wing personnel were assigned to specific duties with the air wing. Under US Navy orgainzation the air wing on a carrier is not part of the ship's company but rather a "tennant command." That is, they are a seperate command operating on the carrier and have their own orgainzational requirements.

    So, for the most part the air wing's personnel are not integrated into the ship's company / crew as part of their Watch, Quarters and, Station bill. It would be unusual for them to be part of the ship's damage control structure or for them to be assigned to duties like part of a gun crew. Instead, the air wing personnel would either be sent to their shops or possibly be put in part of a flight deck damage control crew, that sort of thing.
     
  7. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    From Bureau of Naval Personnel Bulletin, May, 1944

    "AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE - Maintains and repairs aircraft engines, propellers, fuel systems, brakes, hydraulic system, gears, starters. Operates machine-shop tools.

    AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE C (Aviation Carburetor Mechanic) - Maintains, overhauls and tests aircraft carburetors, fuel pumps and fueltank regulators. Installs, repairs and makes necessary adjustments to carburetors.

    AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE F - (Aviation Flight Engineer) - Checks mechanical and material condition of planes, and efficiency of engines in preflight and flight conditions. Makes repairs and adjustments. Not assigned to other than multi-engine planes.

    AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE H - (Aviation Hydraulic Mechanic) - Maintains, repairs and tests hydraulic systems and equipment on aircraft.

    AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE I (Aviation Instrument Mechanic) -Installs, overhauls, cleans and repairs aircraft instruments; adjusts and calibrates them for accuracy.

    AVIATION MACHINIST’S MATE P - (Aviation Propeller Mechanic) - Maintains and overhauls propellers; makes field checks on them. Also straightens, repairs and balances propellers."

    In the early part of the war aviation maintenance ratings and chiefs were mostly assigned to squadrons. Later it became more efficient to assign them to the installation or ship. Thus, by the end of 1943 on carriers you'd find them assigned to ships company for the most part, with only a very few actually assigned to a squadron or air group. Saved a lot of wear and tear on moving people around.
     
  8. mapaherm

    mapaherm recruit

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    Could a AMM2/c have a gunners position on a TBF or Helldiver. I was reading Barrett Tillman's " Clash of the Carriers " book on the Marianas Turkey Shoot and a few times in his book he referred to a AMM 2nd & 1st class as gunners on some of the planes?
     
  9. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Yes.....they would be entitled to a "striker's" rating of Aviation
    Gunner's Mate.

    As for as the other question; it would depend on whether or not the person was part of the "Ship's Company".
     
  10. mapaherm

    mapaherm recruit

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    Thank you for your reply. Semper Fi. My son is a retired Marine. Two tours in Iraq.
     
  11. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Umm, there was no “Aviation Gunners Mate” rating. There was, briefly, circa 1946-1948, an “Aviation Machinegunner” specialty qualification badge one could be awarded but it went away as it became apparent that there would be very few aircraft equipped with free guns and it was not a actual rating. Generally, Seamen (the rate, not the generic classification of people who go to sea) “strike” for a rating. An Aviation Machinist Mate, 1c, 2c, or 3c, already has his rating. He could, of course, strike for a rating in a different specialty, but that would entail a lot of paperwork and probably not something an AMM2c or AMM1c would do.

    And what was an Aviation Machinist Mate doing manning a machine gun in a dive bomber or torpedo plane?

    In the carrier VB and VT business there was a requirement for folks to man various defensive machine guns and operate other equipment.

    In VB squadrons, more often than not, the guys in the back seats of the SBD’s and SB2C’s were Aviation Radiomen, ARM’s, because they were also radio operators, thus the appellation “Radio-Gunner”. And yes, they were not always ARMs. Sometimes they were just plain radiomen, RM, and it was not all that uncommon for a Chief Aviation Radioman (ACRM) or Chief Radioman (CRM) to sit in the back seat. Not that one could not find an AMM in the backseat of a dive bomber and even an ordinary Seaman either, but usually, back-seaters in dive bombers were ARMs. For example, in my great list of naval aviation people from the back-seaters in SBDs in the Battle of Midway, I find that of 108, the vast majority, 76, were ARM’s. Other rates were ACRM’s - 8, AMM’s -7; AOM’s - 4; RM’s - 11; and 2 Seamen. It should be noted that those sitting in the back seat and not of the ARM/RM ratings were perfectly capable of performing the radio operator’s duties or they would not be sitting there. On the other hand, they were not of the radio “fix-it” types that were required of the ARM/RM fraternity. Just as the ARM/RM types did not work on engines as the AMMs, nor did they, nor the AMMs, work with ordnance as did the AOMs.

    The VT business was more varied.
    In the early days, TBDs with a single rear gunner positions, also most often found this position manned by an ARM. Again using the Battle of Midway as an example, back-seaters in the three VT squadrons flying TBDs showed an even higher percentage of ARMs. In these squadrons ARMs numbered 31 or 75.6%; ACRM’s, 2 for 4.9%; CRM 1 for 2.4%; RMs 3 for 7.3% and Seamen, 4 for 9.8%; not an AMM in the lot.

    In TBFs, with a three man crew (sometimes four) there were two defensive positions to be manned, one more-or-less constantly, the .50 cal turret, and then the rear tunnel gun. Disposing of the latter first, the tunnel gun was usually manned by the radio operator, so more often than not one finds this position manned by one of those ubiquitous ARMs . . . another radio-gunner type job. The turret, on the other hand, could be manned by just about anyone deemed qualified. This is where you see a lot of AMMs and AOMs (Aviation Ordnance Mates). Midway, though, and just to be consistent in presentation and just so no one thinks I’m leaving something out, is not a particularly good representation, mostly due to the throw-together nature of the detachment. There were 6 TBFs in the VT-8 Detachment. Besides the six pilots (one of whom, incidentally, was an AMM1c NAP), crewmen consisted radio/tunnel gunners: 2 Ensigns (TAD from VP-44 to assist with navigation), 1 AOM, 1 EM, 1 PTR, and 1 EM; and turret gunners: 1 AM, 1 AMM, 1 AOM, 2 RM, and 1 Seaman.

    For a better example, looking at a late-war TBF squadron, VT-86 in 1945, rated enlisted men assigned as combat aircrewmen, as they were known and for which they were entitled to wear the wings of that designation, in the squadron were the Radio-Gunners, a total of 29 ARMs, and the turret gunners 14 AMMs and 15 AOMs. There were, obviously, more crews than aircraft.

    Importantly, just because someone was one of these ratings does not mean he was a combat aircrewman. For example, besides the ratings noted above for VT-86, there were other ratings in the squadron who were not combat aircrewmen, specifically, 1 ACMM, 1 ACRM, 2 AEM, 1 AM, 4 AMM, 2 AOM, 1 ART, 1 PR, and 2 Y.

    And this does not begin to address the ratings in a given aircraft carrier’s V Division of ships’ company, all of the types mentioned above and more. However, as ships company they would not be found riding in the back seat of a dive bomber or sitting in a turret of TBF; these were reserved for the squadron assigned air combat crewmen.

    Bottom line is that it was not all that uncommon to see an AMM rating manning a machine gun in a strike aircraft. Conversely, just because one was an AMM, does not mean one did so, and the majority of them did not.
     
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  12. mbmccoy

    mbmccoy recruit

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    This picture is of a man listed as AMM2 US Navy WWII by the Nat Cemetery Administration. Can you tell me if he was one of the combat aircrew types? Or what do you think from looking at the picture? Thanks.
    View attachment 12201
     

    Attached Files:

  13. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Absent evidence to the contrary, the fellow certainly could have been an AMM2c.

    Bear in mind, that there's nothing in the photo which would identify him as such, nor anything that points to any other of the aviation ratings.

    For that matter, just from your offering, he could be a Sea1c for all we know.

    Or maybe some AvCad posing to show the folks at home he made it to flight school.

    Or maybe the kid down the street wearing his big brother's 'brought homes'.

    Bunches of possibilities. Generally, it is more than a little difficult to descern rank or rating from a photo of someone in flight clothing; usually, in the naval service, one did not show rank/rate devices on flight jackets.

    So, unless someone knows for an absolute certainty he is NOT an AMM of one class rating or another, yeah, he could be.

    Regards
     
  14. mbmccoy

    mbmccoy recruit

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    Thanks. I was just going by what the burial records said about his rating. I didn't think there was more info in the picture, but I thought I'd ask.
     
  15. AugDog

    AugDog New Member

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    My dad served aboard the USS Hancock CV-19 from 1944-1945 in WWII - bomber groups VB-6 and VB-7 as an AMM2c. And He did indeed fly in combat missions in a Helldiver as a gunner/navigator. I have two different air insignia badges of his. One is a 'Combat Aircrew' winged badge that was only given to those air crewmen who flew in aerial combat missions and those enlisted personnel who qualify for non technical aircrew positions and serve in such positions during aerial combat. The other badge he had was the 'Naval Aviation Observer' winged badge given to navigators, radiomen, and other aircrew for aerial flight time in non combat roles. So, yes there were some AMM2c in carrier air groups who did fill those positions when needed and some saw combat. So I guess it would come down to whether or not the AMM2c had those badges or not.

    Here was my Dad's training he received before going aboard the Hancock in WWII according to his journal. It included: radar, gunner, flight, and dive bomber training, and yet he was an A.M.M.

    Great Lakes : Nov 13, 1942 - Jan 6, 1943

    Navy Pier Chicago - A.M.M. : Jan 21, 1943 - July 17, 1943

    Memphis Tennesse - Radar Training - July 17, 1943 - Aug 1, 1943

    Jacksonville Florida - Naval Air Gunner's School - Aug 2 1943 - Sept 11 1943

    Jacksonville Florida - N.A.S. Operational Training - Sept 11, 1943 - Oct 28, 1943
    Naval Air Station Jacksonville or N. A.S. Jacksonville - More than 10,000 pilots and 11,000 aircrewmen followed their lead to earn their "wings of gold" at the air station during World War II.

    N.A.S. Wildwood, NJ - C.A.S.U 24 (Carrier Service Unit) - Nov. 11, 1943 - Dec 30, 1943
    Commissioned in April 1943, N . A.S.W. served as an active dive-bomber squadron training facility during World War II.

    N.A.T.T.C 87th & Anthony, Chicago (Naval Air Technical Training Center.) - Jan 1, 1944- March 27. 1944

    N.A.S Quonset Point R.I. - C.A.S.U. 22 (Carrier Service Unit) - April 11. 1944 - May 20. 1944
    NAS Quonset Point was a major naval facility throughout World War II. Quonset had been home to numerous aviation squadrons, primarily those land-based patrol squadrons operating the PB4Y and carrier-based antisubmarine units. In addition to flying squadrons, the air station was also home to a major aircraft overhaul and repair (O & R) facility and a Naval Aviation Depot (NADEP). With a deepwater port, NAS Quonset Point was also homeport to several ESSEX class aircraft carrier.

    U.S.S Hancock CV-19 - May 20, 1944 - Dec 5, 1945
     

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