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Anti-Japanese Sentiment

Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by ladymage, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. ladymage

    ladymage New Member

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    So...

    Has anyone noticed that there is still some anti-japanese sentiment, even today? I know that the anti-japanese sentiment started in WW2 but it's still strong in the older generation today. It is particularly noticed by young anime fans today. I have heard of several cases where parents and grandparents do not understand their child's interest in anime or japanese culture. I have even heard of several cases where the grandparents outright despise the child's interest in japanese culture. I think it's somewhat due to misunderstanding. Also, people that fought in the pacific theater sometimes seem to view their grandchild's interest in anime as a sort of 'mini-betrayal'.

    I also personally think it's fascinating how Japan's animation style is sort of tied to post-war japan as a whole. It seems as if the development of their own distinct style was influenced by japan's technological and cultural leaps that they made right after the war.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrsIQBkWjUY
     
  2. Owen

    Owen O

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    Yup.
    Maybe if they actually admitted to what they did it might be reduced.
    The Germans have faced their past, maybe the Japanese ought to as well.
     
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  3. ladymage

    ladymage New Member

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    I can agree with ya there: I don't like their denial. But it doesn't excuse the grandparents who overreact and act poorly when they find out that their grandchild has an interest in Japanese culture.
     
  4. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    You have here two different, yet converging issues. The Pacific war was an extremely brutal conflict fought by all sides which has left considerable hard feelings by the vets who came home. There is also the post war resurgence by Japan and her unwillingness to fully face her acts during and before the war.

    Then there is Anime itself. I dabbled a bit a few years ago, well maybe more than just a few :), and its style is radically different from most western styles of animated content. The overlarge eyes, bright primary colors, and action style is something that either resonates or just seems absurd. This doesn't even touch on some of the more..ah...adult elements, some of which ranges from the risque to the downright repulsive.

    A while back somebody posted a youtube vid about something called "Panzergirls" which had prepubescent girls running around in pretty good animated WWII tanks. Couldn't understand a bit of it myself despite the subtitles. See attached photo for some idea.
     

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  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Ladymage wrote:

    There probably aren't many grandparents still around that actually fought the Japanese. An 18 year old soldier in August 1945 would be 86, going on 87 years old. Great grandparents more likely. By the time Korea broke out in 1950, the Japanese were staunch allies and supported our war effort against North Korea and China. An 18 year old in 1950 would be 81/82 today. So most of the people you are referring to are transferring the prejudices they picked up from an earlier generation about things they never experienced firsthand. Did Japan do some very bad things in WWII? Yes. Were we partially culpable in forcing them into the war? Very much so. Economic and racial prejudices led the western governments to treat Japan in a manner that the western governments would not have stood for, had the roles been reversed. I don't know that I blame the Japanese today for not apologizing for the sins of their grandfathers and great grandfathers. While Japan hasn't faced up to their past, neither did our allies the Nationalist Chinese apologize for their war crimes against the Chinese, not our other ally the Soviet Union apologize for the millions of their people killed during Stalin's purges or for invading Poland, or the rapes and murders of German civilian women towards the end of the war. At this late date it is history, most of the perpetrators and the victims and most of their children are dead and gone.
     
  6. scipio

    scipio Member

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    Very very bad things and a much worse scale than anyone else

    Yes but this does not excuse in one iota the the scale of barbarity excised by Japan

    But their grandchildren, eg Abe PM of Japan are now in charge and denying the culpability of their class A war criminal grandparents, wallowing in atomic self pity, painting themselves as Asia's liberators and whitewashing their past.

    Thank god we are not their allies.
     
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  7. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Don't forget the families that had to live with the men that came back from Japanese treatment...to say the men were the only victims, that they alone suffered is short sighted.
     
  8. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Much worse scale? Really, how so? Best estimates are Japan 6 million civilians were killed by the Japanese military, Chinese, Koreans, Malayans, Filipinos, etc., including Allied prisoners of War. Germany, exterminated over 5 million Polish Jews alone! When you add those of other ethnicities, plus western europe, plus eastern europe, plus civilians in the Soviet Union, Soviet prisoners, etc., they well exceed Japan's total. Both used chemical warfare. Both conducted hideous medical experiments. You can add at least another 5 million Chinese to the Japanese total if you include war related famine. However, much of the famine was caused by Nationalist Chinese (our ally) military actions. Then you'd also need to add in the Soviet famine deaths to the Geman total, probably another 6 million dead Soviet civilians due to disease and famine. And then who would you attribute the 1.5 to 2.5 million Indian deaths related to famine and disease? Since Britain contolled India during the war do we attribute these deaths to them? We westerners blame Japanese actions in Burma that cut part of India's food supply, but it was actually internal government mismanagement and British politics.
    From Wikipedia:
    "The British government denied an urgent request from Leopold Amery, the Indian secretary of state, and Archibald Wavell, the Viceroy of India, to stop exports of food from Bengal in order that it might be used for famine relief. Winston Churchill, then prime minister, dismissed these requests in a fashion that Amery regarded as "Hitler-like," by asking why, if the famine was so horrible, Gandhi had not yet died of starvation. Indeed, he refused to allow free relief shipments of food from the United States and Canada into Bengal on the grounds that the food was needed more elsewhere..."

    While the Japanese were definately guilty of maltreatment of enemy prisoners, what about German treatment of Soviet and eastern european prisoners? Probably 3.3 million deaths. How about Soviet treatment of German prisoners? Best guess is 1 million German POW's died in Soviet POW camps. Then figure in another 200,000 or so Poles that died in captivity or were executed, after being captured during the Soviet invasion of Poland. So the Soviets were just as good as killing POW's as Germany or Japan. Japan also had the "comfort" women, a terrible thing. The estimates of the numbers involved run from a low of 20,000 by some Japanese apologists to 410,000 by some Chinese scholars. The best number is probably 200,000. (The BBC pegged the number at 200,000 to 300,000, and the International Commission of Jurists placed the number at 200,000, which is based upon the best data. But what about the Soviet rapes of German and east european women? Estimates are there were at least 2 million women, raped by Soviet military personnel, 100,000 in Berlin alone. Many women reported being raped up to 60-70 times, some raped to death. Approximately 240,000 died as a direct result of the rape. Is this Soviet behavior OK?

    There were a lot of terrible things done in that war, but we don't need to still be throwing rocks when we are guilty of looking the other way also. Additionally, Germany and Japan already paid a high price for their crimes. Both countries were pretty much destroyed and huge numbers of their civilian populations were killed.
     
  9. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    There are still quite a few left here Usmc...Only 2 years ago I attended the unveiling of a memorial stone to those that fought in Burma in a small market town in Uk. It was well attended by veterans of that fight. I would suggest that we cannot and should not talk of our grandparents my own included who fought the Japanese and to this day still actually hate them in some cases. It is there right to do so and until the last of them has passed on we have no right to criticise them...Tony Blair once famously commented before a Japanese state visit here...that the past should be just that...the past and forgotten in his own words...He like us had no right to dictate such an attitude...forgive and forget is up to the vets still alive...and not us.
     
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  10. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Crank up the Enola Gay!!!!
     
  11. Ken The Kanuck

    Ken The Kanuck Member

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    I do not believe that the conduct of the Japanese in that era is either forgivable or forgetable (I wonder if those are words)?

    I am also disgusted the way we Canadians treated our citizens of Japanese origin, But as it has been noted we "fessed up" and will hopefully be able to move forward.

    I don't know nuthin about anime or whatever.

    KTK
     
  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    If the Imperial Japanese army had known that the future of Japanese culture would be anime, they'd have all fallen on their swords before ever invading Manchuria.
     
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  13. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Simple matter, Any wrong doing be it committed by your self, Your parents or your grand parents needs an apology at the least. Most advanced nations have been over the years apologising and doing their best to fix the past mistakes, US with the Native Indians, Australia with the Aboriginals, UK with former colonies etc, Even though most of the vet's are long gone many of their children, grand children and even some grand children would have seen the toll it took upon them.

    Ignoring it may be one thing, But Japan has made it a habit of flat out denying any wrong doing. That is just crap being thrown in the face of the families whose fathers and grandfathers who fought in such horrific conditions.
     
  14. ptimms

    ptimms Member

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    The not apologising I can live with, me today saying sorry for the crimes of my Great, Great Grandparents I think is pointless. But denial is another thing. Many of the crimes of Japan are denied by their leaders today and that I find unforgiveable. There was a vet in our British Legion when I was a kid, ex Chindit and ex Japanese POW, he never once spoke of his experiences as he couldn't bring himself to.
     
  15. scipio

    scipio Member

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    USMC
    I have been reading more on this topic, the Blighted Blossom, Hirothito and Making of Modern Japan, Bill Slim's Autobiography etc and the more I read the more shocked and disappointed I am that Japan does not admit it crimes.

    Well, I have seen 20 million quoted for Japanese Aggression in WW2, but frankly these figures are so horrific that the actual number is irrelevant.

    We could of course be specific and say that it was US action that led Japan to conclude she had to go to War but again that is irrelevant.

    You list many disgraceful actions of the British and you could add to this list many more, Irish Potato Famine, Boer War, Jameson Raid Rhodesia, Indian Mutiny etc.
    I have refrained from compiling a similar list committed by the USA in her short history, crushing Philippine Insurrection, snuffing out Hawaii Independence, exploitation of Cuba etc etc

    However, there is a major difference between the US and Britain on the one hand and and Japan on the other. Mainstream Historians and Politicians in both our countries acknowledge the facts fully.

    This far from the position in Japan and (thanks to this Forum) in my continuing investigation I conclude that the Japanese view of its history is getting more and more distorted from the truth due the rise of a new breed of nationalists of which Abe is just one of many.
     
  16. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Scipio wrote:

    Japan has admitted to its crimes. There is a new generation of politicians, today, that are into denying them, but this is not unique to Japan. How many holocaust deniers have surfaced in the west in the last several decades. I think they're morons, but they do exist, and their existence should not be taken as a blanket denial by the western countries that they live in.

    Some examples:

    --"Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama, in August 1995, stated that Japan "through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations", and he expressed his "feelings of deep remorse" and stated his "heartfelt apology"

    --"September 29, 1972, Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka stated: "the Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself."

    --"13 September 2010, Japanese Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada met in Tokyo with six former American POWs of the Japanese and apologized for their treatment during World War II. Said Okada, "You have all been through hardships during World War II, being taken prisoner by the Japanese military, and suffered extremely inhumane treatment. On behalf of the Japanese government and as the foreign minister, I would like to offer you my heartfelt apology."

    --"29 November 2011, Japanese Foreign Minister Koichiro Genba apologized to former Australian POWs on behalf of the Japanese government for pain and suffering inflicted on them during the war."

    Japan also paid out monetary damages to the governments of many of its victims. South Korea is a good example.

    "During the treaty negotiation with South Korea, the Japanese government proposed that it pay monetary compensation to individual Korean victims, in line with the payments to Western POWs. The Korean government instead insisted that Japan pay money collectively to the Korean government, and that is what occurred. The South Korean government then used the funds for economic development."

    The most recent criticism is related to statements made by former Japanese Prime Minister, Shinz┼Ź Abe concerning "Comfort" women. Were his comments stupid, ill advised and contrary to the evidence? Yes. Now the majority of Japanese comfort women were Koreans, (51.8% based on the best evidence). Japan paid Korea reparations, but Korea did not compensate the individual women. Later, the individual women attempted to get compensation directly from Japan. At this point is it Japan's responsibility or Korea's?

    Also, since comfort women are now the main group Japan is being criticized for not properly making amends to. Who is demanding that the Soviets make amends for their systematic rape of German women? have they made apologies or financial restitution? No. Then when you look at the scale, ten times the number of German victims and 17% more deaths from the rapes, than the total number of women involved in the Japanese situation. Does there not appear to be a double standard here?

    I agree. When you get to those type of numbers it does become irrelevant. I also feel that when you get to those kind of numbers it is really hard to determine who was the worse culprit. However, the reason for my including the figures was to point out that, your comment that Japan's crimes were on, "a much worse scale than anyone else." was not accurate.

    I agree, I think the US did force Japan into a military solution.

    I didn't mean to appear to be picking on the British, its just that the numbers for the Soviets, Germans and Japanese are so massive the only number coming close is the Indian famine deaths. I understand and accept that the US has just as many skeletons in its closet.

    I don't know that this is true. While historians have written extensively on some of our worst actions, I don't know that our politicians have made the type of apologies or restitution that Japan has made. How did Britain make it up to China for the Opium Wars or the US for breaking just about every treaty it ever made with the American Indian? I'm not suggesting that we need to do this or should do this, just pointing out there is a double standard.
     
  17. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Urgh wrote:

    I know there are still some around. My older son had brunch with Marine Sid Phillips, from the series "The Pacific", back in October or November. My point was that there aren't a lot.

    My paternal grandfather served on an LST in the Pacific and was involved in many landings during the war. My paternal grandmother had two brothers that served in the Pacific, (and two more that served in Europe). I was very close to both of them and spent a lot of time with them (and my Dad's brother uncle Charlie, a Korean War Marine) as a kid. They felt it was their job to be my male role models during my Dad's numerous deployments, including three 13 month tours in Vietnam. Uncle Horace served as a Marine Raider in the Solomons and later was part of the "new" 4th Marines for Guam. He was wounded and had a nervous breakdown at Guam. He was in a mental hospital in California for the rest of the war and for sometime thereafter. During a nighttime Banzai, their lines were over run, he was wounded and there were no more living Marines in his vicinity, so he crawled into a small cave to hide. There were live Japanese in the cave when he went in. Sometime the next day when the Marines had counter-attacked, restored the lines and found him. His mind was gone. When I stayed on my great grand parents farm when I was small, and he was also there, you were warned not to get out of bed at night because moving shadows would cause his mind to slip back to his time in the Pacific and he might hurt you before he realized where he was. Uncle C.V. spent several years fighting with the U.S. Army on New Guinea and was still there when the war ended. They both hated the Japanese, with good reason. I loved and respected them both, but I have no particular like or dislike for the Japanese people. The vast majority of Americans, (or British) and Japanese, did not fight one another, nor were responsible for what their countries did during that era. They've all passed now.

    I do not, and do not think I said, or insinuated that the veterans don't have a right to feel hate. They certainly do. They're the ones that fought, suffered and sacrificed. I agree it is up to the individual vet to decide to forgive or forget. My original point was that most people that hold these attitudes never experienced any thing at the hands or the Japanese, most probably never knew anyone that did. I'd guess that 90% plus of the Japanese alive today, weren't even born when the atrocities were committed.
     
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  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I don't think this is correct. Read Hotta's Japan 1941. In it, she traces the history of Japan's relations with the West ( including the US) back to the 19th century. I'm not sure a blanket statement covers the complexity of this relationship.
     
  19. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    LRusso216 wrote:

    I haven't read that book, I may go ahead and order it. Costello in The Pacific War 1941-1945 (1981) did much the same thing. Read it when it first came out and again a couple years ago. He also goes back and traces the history back to before the opening of Japan and China to the west. I spent the intervening years reading up on the various aspects he introduced me to. I think Japan could have evolved into a bastion of democratic government and ideals, if she had been treated fairly. As it was, institutional racism, a desire to maintain and expand Chinese and Asian markets and minimize the growth of Japanese access and influence in these areas, continually treating European powers in a more favorable manner, by the US and Britain led directly to the direction Japan eventually took. By the time of WWII Japan had little choice but to go to war or face economic ruin.
     
  20. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Hotta maintains that there were several factions in Japan. Most were opposed to war, but lower level bureaucrats put the leadership in an untenable situation. Read the book. I would be interested in your response.
     

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